SAP Bluetooth cradle

[pos.k]

Oh!

 

[Diesel Benz]

Just tried this on my V2 SAP cradle and it works! Thanks for the tip whitenemesis.

I tried again with the entry both on the downloaded contacts as well as on the Comand phone book but it did not change my V1 BT SAP shut down time.

I don't remember if I've tried it with a phone on the cradle, that would rule the V1 SAP BT device out.

 

[whitenemesis]

I tried again with the entry both on the downloaded contacts as well as on the Comand phone book but it did not change my V1 BT SAP shut down time.

I don't remember if I've tried it with a phone on the cradle, that would rule the V1 SAP BT device out.

This is a COMAND thing, not a SAP module specific thing. I guess your COMAND doesn't support the feature. The instructions don't mention bluetooth, it expects the phone to be in the cradle.

To get it to work for me I had to create the contact on the phone then re-sync with COMAND. I don't have a cradle.

You can force a shut down by pressing TEL for >2sec (again this is for my COMAND-APS)

 

[richard]

T
You can force a shut down by pressing TEL for >2sec (again this is for my COMAND-APS)

Thanks, I didnt know that !!! Must read a COMAND manual one day ;-)

R

 

[Diesel Benz]

This is a COMAND thing, not a SAP module specific thing. I guess your COMAND doesn't support the feature. The instructions don't mention bluetooth, it expects the phone to be in the cradle.

To get it to work for me I had to create the contact on the phone then re-sync with COMAND. I don't have a cradle.

You can force a shut down by pressing TEL for >2sec (again this is for my COMAND-APS)

I understand the disconnect feature being missing from the W221 when it does not have a specific button assigned for the phone but the lack of support for the shut down timer is strange. I even have the Comand SW updated, they should have received sufficient complaints about the phone staying on and re-introducing the shut down timer. Anyway, it does not bother me personally as I always lose connection very soon when leaving the car to the garage but many other owners report their phone remaining connected to the car when they are at home.

I guess it is obvious that his is Comand specific, I just remember some cradle manual explaining the shut down timer but the BT device manual does not, so "I kept it open".

 

[amwebby]

I understand the disconnect feature being missing from the W221 when it does not have a specific button assigned for the phone but the lack of support for the shut down timer is strange. I even have the Comand SW updated, they should have received sufficient complaints about the phone staying on and re-introducing the shut down timer. Anyway, it does not bother me personally as I always lose connection very soon when leaving the car to the garage but many other owners report their phone remaining connected to the car when they are at home.

I guess it is obvious that his is Comand specific, I just remember some cradle manual explaining the shut down timer but the BT device manual does not, so "I kept it open".

My COMAND is 2.5, with the MY2001 update, and this worked on mine. Previously the BT connection stayed tied to the car for 10 minutes as whitenemesis said.

DieselBenz, it sounds like yours drops the connection within a minute anyway, so you may not notice a difference. Maybe the shorter connection time is integral to your version of COMAND?

 

[Diesel Benz]

My COMAND is 2.5, with the MY2001 update, and this worked on mine. Previously the BT connection stayed tied to the car for 10 minutes as whitenemesis said.

DieselBenz, it sounds like yours drops the connection within a minute anyway, so you may not notice a difference. Maybe the shorter connection time is integral to your version of COMAND?

No, the W221 does not drop the connection in a minute, not sure how long it stays after switch off. The reason it does not bother me is that it takes 20 seconds for me to close the car doors, get out of my garage and enter home at which point the BT connection does not reach the car any more. Others who have better BT connection from their garage, or from the street where they leave their cars, are hit heavier with this problem.

 

[amwebby]

I was still finding it took 10 minutes to drop the connection. Once I went into a my local Waitrose, far out of range of BT, and the connection stayed active in the car for the full 10 minutes, long enough for someone to make a call and leave a message, which I found waiting in the car for me upon my return.

I don't know how often the car checks with the SIM via BT to verify the SIM authorisation but wouldn't have thought it needs constant contact via BT to keep ownership of that authorisation.

 

[Diesel Benz]

I was still finding it took 10 minutes to drop the connection. Once I went into a my local Waitrose, far out of range of BT, and the connection stayed active in the car for the full 10 minutes, long enough for someone to make a call and leave a message, which I found waiting in the car for me upon my return.

I don't know how often the car checks with the SIM via BT to verify the SIM authorisation but wouldn't have thought it needs constant contact via BT to keep ownership of that authorisation.

That sounds odd. I have not measured the exact time but it is my phone that reverts to normal operation from SAP mode in a very short time after it looses BT connection to the car. It could be from a few seconds to max 20, but still a guess, definitely less than a minute.

Which phone was that? I'm mostly using Nokia E90.

I've never looked at the car when I'm far away from it but since the phone is able to register to the network, the car must have detached by then. There are even requirements on the time the phone is allowed to show service while the SIM card has been removed. I do not know the exact time but it would have to apply for the SAP case too.

 

[amwebby]

I'm using a Nokia N73.

Since the BT SAP connection gets authorisation from the SIM to access the network I'm not sure if the scenerio is exactly the same as if the SIM card was physically removed from the phone. As far as the SAP BT device is concerned the SIM card is "virtually" there until the next time it checks.

 

[Diesel Benz]

I'm using a Nokia N73.

Since the BT SAP connection gets authorisation from the SIM to access the network I'm not sure if the scenerio is exactly the same as if the SIM card was physically removed from the phone. As far as the SAP BT device is concerned the SIM card is "virtually" there until the next time it checks.

I agree with your latter sentence but the point is that the standards set a requirement for the phone to detect the presence of the SIM card. The standard does not care about the implementation, like quite a few phones rely on the fact that the battery needs to be removed before the SIM card can be removed and then don't "watch after" the presence of the SIM card. But those where the SIM card can be removed easily, like those old phones with a credit card sized SIM (small SIMs may have similar holders), have to watch after SIM being present. The intention is to avoid the card being moved from one phone to another (although there are means at the network side to detect this, it anyway creates unwanted tasks for the network). Now with the BT SAP approach, the MB BT SAP adapter should do the same (but never know about the Peiker implementation, perhaps this is not tested at type approval).

I would anyway assume the N73 behave the same way as my E90. Odd if the BT SAP devices behave differently. I'll anyway have to explicitly measure the time it takes when I leave my car until my phone shows service (as it looses BT connection). Perhaps you could test it again too, it could always be a bug in the phone that happens once in a while and prevents the phone to change to normal mode.

 

[whitenemesis]

Diesel Benz, have you shortly returned to your car once your phone has disconnected and does it reconnect without you unlocking the car?

This could demonstrate COMAND is still "active" and your phone is recaptured once you get back into BT range

 

[crockers]

I dont have the SAP I use a V3 Motorola via a dedicated Motorola BT cradle -- It too holds onto the BT for around 10 minutes.

Worse thing was when I was in the dealers -- I had disconnected the phone from the car and was making a call in the waiting area - obviously someone had started my car reconnecting it.... hmmm...I was saying hello hello what the f*cks going on here ... ..must have made interesting listening in the workshop if they had it coming through the speakers..

Then I realised what had happened and re-disconnected it again.....now when I take the car in and am staying I unclip the cradle...

 

[Diesel Benz]

I dont have the SAP I use a V3 Motorola via a dedicated Motorola BT cradle -- It too holds onto the BT for around 10 minutes.

Worse thing was when I was in the dealers -- I had disconnected the phone from the car and was making a call in the waiting area - obviously someone had started my car reconnecting it.... hmmm...I was saying hello hello what the f*cks going on here ... ..must have made interesting listening in the workshop if they had it coming through the speakers..

Then I realised what had happened and re-disconnected it again.....now when I take the car in and am staying I unclip the cradle...

You could switch BT off from the phone too, but it may feel safer to have the BT adapter disconnected.

 

[Diesel Benz]

Diesel Benz, have you shortly returned to your car once your phone has disconnected and does it reconnect without you unlocking the car?

This could demonstrate COMAND is still "active" and your phone is recaptured once you get back into BT range

My phone does not reconnect when I approach the car before I unlock/open the doors. This is after the car has been on its own over night or so. I have not tried leaving the car to force BT disconnect and then return immediately to the car. BT could be on and waiting for the phone.

I have not played with switching the car off and remaining connected with BT but I have a feeling that I did not even get a ring tone when the ignition was turned off but the phone was still connected to the car.

I might try some of this testing just to learn more how the BT setup behaves.

 

[Diesel Benz]

I did some testing but my patience was not sufficient for good results.

- when the car has been in the garage for a good time, the car is pretty well in sleep and does not search my phone and does not connect to it even if I stay minutes close to it.

- if I open the locks with the remote key but don't open doors, the phone will not connect (the car locks itself in a while).

- if I leave the car after a drive, go home (next to my garage), the BT connection disconnects within a few seconds but if I go back to the (locked) car immediately, the phone does connect again.

- I tried staying close to the car after a drive, closed and locked doors. The phone stayed connected 12+ minutes. I left the phone next to the car and came back later, it had disconnected but I did not get the time it took for it to get disconnected.

I thought the car CAN bus would go to sleep in some 6 minutes but it either is longer on my car or more likely the active phone connection delays the sleep mode. Once the car has entered sleep mode, it would not connect again.

This was for a W221, perhaps other models behave differently.

 

[whitenemesis]

I did pretty much the same experiments this afternoon!

My findings are in line with Diesel Benz, with the exception that my phone disconnects after approx 1 min (my Run-on Time).

But during that 1min, with the car locked, if I ring my mobile (from the house phone) I hear nothing and I do not get a "missed call" log on my mobile. From the house phone I hear the connected tone and apparently my mobile ringing...

So if some one were to call me during that Run-on Time I would mis the call and not know.

 

[amwebby]

I agree with your latter sentence but the point is that the standards set a requirement for the phone to detect the presence of the SIM card. The standard does not care about the implementation, like quite a few phones rely on the fact that the battery needs to be removed before the SIM card can be removed and then don't "watch after" the presence of the SIM card. But those where the SIM card can be removed easily, like those old phones with a credit card sized SIM (small SIMs may have similar holders), have to watch after SIM being present. The intention is to avoid the card being moved from one phone to another (although there are means at the network side to detect this, it anyway creates unwanted tasks for the network). Now with the BT SAP approach, the MB BT SAP adapter should do the same (but never know about the Peiker implementation, perhaps this is not tested at type approval).

I would anyway assume the N73 behave the same way as my E90. Odd if the BT SAP devices behave differently. I'll anyway have to explicitly measure the time it takes when I leave my car until my phone shows service (as it looses BT connection). Perhaps you could test it again too, it could always be a bug in the phone that happens once in a while and prevents the phone to change to normal mode.

The point is it is not the N73 behaving this way, it is the car's phone controller via the BT SAP device that is retaining its hold on the SIM authorisation. As you say, we don't know about the Peiker implementation.

I've done some tests, altering the value of the run-on feature and it is consistent, with the phone switching back to non SAP mode in the time set. This is with my car in range of the BT though. I will have to try it moving out of range as you have done.

 

[Diesel Benz]

The point is it is not the N73 behaving this way, it is the car's phone controller via the BT SAP device that is retaining its hold on the SIM authorisation. As you say, we don't know about the Peiker implementation.

I've done some tests, altering the value of the run-on feature and it is consistent, with the phone switching back to non SAP mode in the time set. This is with my car in range of the BT though. I will have to try it moving out of range as you have done.

I should have mentioned I have the Run-on time set to one minute but it really does not work with my Comand.

I'm not ready to blame Peiker alone about the fact that the phone stays in BT SAP mode "for a long time after the BT connection has been lost".

The Peiker implementation should not matter from the point onwards when the BT connection is lost. One could consider a timer that Peiker would set but I'm pretty sure there is none.

My E90 reverts pretty quickly to normal mode once it loses connection to the car (within a few seconds, less than ten seconds). The phone does not care what the Peiker device does at this point, which is good.

I could test my car with a couple of different SAP capable phones, at least one S40 and with an N-series (N95) but I really would assume the same behaviour from those all. Unfortunately I do not know anyone with an N73 and cannot test with that phone.

It would be nice if you could repeat the "lost BT connection" test a couple of times.

 

[pos.k]

Have been trying this out, and seems that the connecton time after leaving the car is pretty hit and miss - sometimes almost immediately, and sometimes several minutes (10+). I don't have the runon time contact name listed in the phonebook.
I have tried leaving the phone in range and not in range, didn't seem to make a difference to th phone coming out of remote sim mode on it's own.