Service rip off

[Petrol Pete]

I have some sympathy with what Michelin are saying as it's environmentally unfriendly to be disposing of tyres with 4mm of thread left. I've measured some new tyres at only have 7.4mm to start with.

I was though a little surprised to see the claim that Michelins have the same aquaplaning resistance at 1.6mm as a budget tyre at 3mm. That can't be applicable equally to all budget tyres as evacuation of water depends on the tread pattern with longitudinal grooves being better than other patterns. Michelins technology advantage for wet grip must be mostly in the rubber compound and some other tyres may be almost as good for evacuating water at the same tread depth. To keep the whole tyre safety vs tread depth issue in perspective, it's mostly in the wet that the issue exists at all, so just don't push the envelope in the wet. If you lose grip when driving normally you are doing something wrong. Yes there's the emergency situation but good driving should eliminate most of those as well.

Spare a thought for our American cousins who expect to get 100,000 miles out of a set of tyres. They can only be doing that because the tyre manufacturers are using harder compounds than they use in Europe.
It's not as clear cut as a simple figure like 1.6mm

One thing not addressed is tyre age. The rubber gradually get harder and loses grip with age such that even with good tread depth there comes a point at perhaps10 years old when tyres should be changed even though at this point they may still be as good as American tyres.

The Avon ZV5's I have were 7.4mm brand new. the last lot wore down evenly almost to the TWI's before I replaced them , all 4 .

 

[Tezz]

Even so, looking at the E-class service kit, costs about £170 from the dealer. They charge another £500 to fit it and we are talking about activities that take roughly 1-2 hours. Still a rip-off.

I dont think servicing has any relavence to how long it takes in real time, it's more what they can get away with, I remember a mini had to have front sub frame dropped, masive labour charges, dealer was asked as it was already out could they replace the bushes aswell, the cost was caculated as if sub frame was still fitted, even though was out, so infact dealer was charging to take sub frame e out twice yet do once, this happens alot, I once had to check on 100 services on Van's, most of hours billed added up to more than hours in a day, yet vans were back with mot in under 8, they have set hours for each task, if they overlap they do not deduct any hours as part of job already done

 

[Deleted member 65149]

"A clever bit of self-promotion from Michelin..." I'm guessing you never use budget tyres. I think you should read what is in the article again. Of course you know better than Michelin's Research Director...

Motorcycle tyres may have only as little as 4mm tread to start with. Hmmmmm?

That’s nice of you to say so, but I really don’t know more about tyres than Michelin’s Research Director. However, I do know how to read what he said about tyre wear and comparisons between premium and budget tyres under varying conditions. My reaction to your retort is confirmation of my concerns about how easily his words can be misinterpreted with potentially dangerous consequences.

However, I’m in full support of Michelin in calling for a change to the tyre testing regime to reflect wet braking performance at 1.6mm.

Although, as I said, I’m far from being an expert on tyre technology I have cleverly spotted a difference between motorcycle tyres and car tyres. As a general rule motorcycle tyres are a lot narrower than car tyres and the latter don’t usually lean over at acute angles when cornering. It strikes me as obvious that the structure, treads and rubber characteristics would need to be vastly different with each, so reference to tread depths on motorcycle tyres has as little relevance to the subject of car tyres as would citing tractor tyres having depths of up to 65mm. Hmmmmmm!

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Returning to the tyre replacement part of this discussion, I can’t remember when I last only replaced 2 tyres. Maybe it’s my driving style and maybe it’s the particular cars I’ve owned, but for over 30 years at least I’ve always had all four replaced at the same time without having needed to or been able to swap them around. With those bits of rubber being all that’s connecting my car to the road, I don’t want to be taking any chances. 3mm is the minimum point at which I change tyres so undoubtedly there have been times when a couple of the tyres will have been nearer to 4mm. It’s a big chunk of money to fork out at once, but I’m not prepared to put a price on my life, my family’s life, or anyone else’s life.

I've never known a front wheel drive car to have equal wear all round. This makes a lot of sense to me as they supply the traction and steering & most of the braking.

The rear tyres always wear quicker on every rear wheel drive I've ever owned. My driving style......

 

[190]

As a general rule motorcycle tyres are a lot narrower than car tyres and the latter don’t usually lean over at acute angles when cornering. It strikes me as obvious that the structure, treads and rubber characteristics would need to be vastly different with each, so reference to tread depths on motorcycle tyres has as little relevance to the subject of car tyres as would citing tractor tyres having depths of up to 65mm. Hmmmmm

They are indeed very different. With motorcycle tyres using softer compounds they always wear faster with high powered bikes capable of wearing a rear in 1000 miles. Mine tend to last between 6000 and 10,000 miles or approx 1/3 as long as my car tyres. Generally motorcycle tyres have shallower new tread than car tyres, My current Michelins had 5.75mm front and 6.25mm rear when new. What I have also seen is different new tread depths on the same make and model of tyre depending on speed rating. The higher speed rated tyre had shallower tread to control heat build up at high speed. The same may be true of car tyres so it does not pay to use higher speed rated tyres than necessary.

 

[E55BOF]

... I really don’t know more about tyres than Michelin’s Research Director....

Quite so; that's my point, really. I know whose opinion I would put most weight on.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Quite so; that's my point, really. I know whose opinion I would put most weight on.

And MY point is that I have no reason to disagree with his opinion, just the dangerously incorrect INTERPRETATION of his opinion that apparently you and no doubt too many others will give to that opinion.

 

[geoffus]

I've never known a front wheel drive car to have equal wear all round. This makes a lot of sense to me as they supply the traction and steering & most of the braking.

The rear tyres always wear quicker on every rear wheel drive I've ever owned. My driving style......

I agree, I bought the wife a 44000 mile Peugeot 207 ages ago from a little old lady, the rear tyres were still original and had loads of life left, the fronts were on there second set, doubt if on any front or rear wheel drive car will have equal wear.
I don't see the point in changing all four if 2 are still serviceable.

 

[E55BOF]

And MY point is that I have no reason to disagree with his opinion, just the dangerously incorrect INTERPRETATION of his opinion that apparently you and no doubt too many others will give to that opinion.

Ah, the small voice in the wilderness...

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I agree, I bought the wife a 44000 mile Peugeot 207 ages ago from a little old lady, the rear tyres were still original and had loads of life left, the fronts were on there second set, doubt if on any front or rear wheel drive car will have equal wear.
I don't see the point in changing all four if 2 are still serviceable.

Looking back at the eight service reports for my C350 it shows that the maximum tread difference at any one time across the full width of all four tyres was 0.7mm.

But of course, bearing in mind the title of this thread, it could be that the tyres were never really checked and the technician just made up a set of figures!

 

[markjay]

I agree, I bought the wife a 44000 mile Peugeot 207 ages ago from a little old lady, the rear tyres were still original and had loads of life left, the fronts were on there second set, doubt if on any front or rear wheel drive car will have equal wear.
I don't see the point in changing all four if 2 are still serviceable.

Did you start rotating the tyres back-to-front after buying the car?

 

[geoffus]

Did you start rotating the tyres back-to-front after buying the car?

No, we had to buy 2 rears as they had lots of tread but showed signs of sidewall cracks, they were michelins and over 12 years old.

 

[merc estate]

I used to drive a taxi and would always put michelin tyres on they lasted far longer, there not low profiles though

 

[Omega]

My local dealership buggered up both my rear brakes. It had to have 2 new callipers, pistons, pads & discs.
THEY CHARGED ME TO PUT IT RIGHT, otherwise I couldn't get my car out of there ! (I'm not sure if I'm fit enough to take in my own hands !!)
I wrote to the franchise owner, Mercedes UK & Dieter Zetsche Mercedes CEO - not one of them were interested in the way their brand is being carried out by Truro/Probus gang and the BenzSouthWest franchise team.
After 45 years, It's my last MB I'm thinking.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Omega . They did that much damage and YOU had to pay for it !??

Any more detail on how this came about ?

 

[geoffus]

Omega . They did that much damage and YOU had to pay for it !??

My local dealership buggered up both my rear brakes. It had to have 2 new callipers, pistons, pads & discs.
THEY CHARGED ME TO PUT IT RIGHT, otherwise I couldn't get my car out of there ! (I'm not sure if I'm fit enough to take in my own hands !!)
I wrote to the franchise owner, Mercedes UK & Dieter Zetsche Mercedes CEO - not one of them were interested in the way their brand is being carried out by Truro/Probus gang and the BenzSouthWest franchise team.
After 45 years, It's my last MB I'm thinking.

Any more detail on how this came about ?

How did they manage bugger up both sides ?
I would also be interested in what they managed to ruin.

 

[Fastcar155]

My local dealership buggered up both my rear brakes. It had to have 2 new callipers, pistons, pads & discs.
THEY CHARGED ME TO PUT IT RIGHT, otherwise I couldn't get my car out of there ! (I'm not sure if I'm fit enough to take in my own hands !!)
I wrote to the franchise owner, Mercedes UK & Dieter Zetsche Mercedes CEO - not one of them were interested in the way their brand is being carried out by Truro/Probus gang and the BenzSouthWest franchise team.
After 45 years, It's my last MB I'm thinking.

Hi , MB South West have an after sales director who I personally found to be very good.

Worth a shout

 

[Grumpydriver]

Sad to read about all the problems. On one of my last E350s, a service read out showed that the spare wheel had been checked and was within limits. Unfortunately, it did not have a spare and I pointed this out to the service manager. His first response was that it must be that the technician had done all the work required and then just ticked all the boxes as a matter of course. I could have understood that albeit that you should perhaps expect better given the cost. Unfortunately for the technicIan, he had also recorded the tyre pressure. Once the service manager realised this the car was picked up and replaced with a ”loaner” whilst they redid the service. Yes, I put a few markers on and they really did a new full service. I requested that they went easy on the techie and just taught him him the error of his ways which I believe happened after an interview with no tea or biscuits! I continue to use the dealership and the service manager is one of the best.

 

[markjay]

When I first booked the car for service at the dealer it had four Bridgestone tyres, and the checklist correctly showed the tyre make as 'Bridgestone'. I then replaced the tyres with Dunlops, but the checklist on the following two services still showed the make as 'Bridgestone'. I guess it was logged this way on the computer, but still it would have inspired more confidence if the tech actually noticed it was incorrect and changed it on the checklist.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

It still never ceases to a amaze me how much people will pay for a service, if you get al, parts from OEM manufacturer, what's cost max £100-200 , how can anyone justifiy £1000 labour for a service you can have done why you wait

Being in this auto repair business at the pointed end, do you know what successful repair shops mark up their three salient service aspects for profit?.
That is sales of Parts, % age of uplift ,
That is sale of Labor as a % age for profit
and the last maybe more intrinsic is:-
Experience & Product platform knowledge what is the value of that?

Now looking at the fish swimming around in the UK auto repair goldfish bowl, .Techs doing the work get very poor compensation for what they do in the UK industry , and with it comes that intrinsic expertise .
Consequently as a business owner i can more or less check into a UK shop charge out rate and guestimate what a shop is charging you the customer for service.
In a few words Brits get off very light & no wonder some of you can afford to drive MBs .
So guys what is the minimum % age uplift consideration for a healthy profit selling service.
Any ideas?
Tuercas Viejas