stuck in france e300 w210 power loss

[massy rider]

just join this site and love it already, helped greaty with non working fan blower

now have a new problem i have just arrived in the south of france having covered 750 miles of faultless driving, apart from temp gauge going up to approx 90 degrees (normally holds 80) but outside temp was around 34!

driving it today with air con on waS MAKING a noticably oud humm till air conn turned off, and in hindsite was slightly sluggish, having stopped for couple of hours went to return back to friends house and car was very sluggish, found kids had played with w/s button next to auto gear stick so put back to s setting and throttle seemed lot more responsive up to approx 20 mph, then reluctant to move, if foot pushed down at 50 ish it would change down 1 gear and increase revs but not excelerate. if i pressed foot through floor it would change down 2 gears increase revs nut not increase speed.

have read some threads and checked pipe from under rocker cover to turbo inlet house (approx 10 mil dia pipe with rubber join under rocker cover). 90 degree bend at from of engine toward back of ebgine head was broken but pipe still pushes into bend. took out for quick run and was better response under excelleration and change down but not right. also still running between 80 and 90 degrees though normally above 80

also tried disconnecting elec plug into air filter housing on outlet to turbo this brought symptoms back but not so bad then alot better when re connected but still doesnt have sense of urgency when under hard excelleration it had before.

need your wisdom, also if using terms like MAF please right what it means in laymen terms, not for me you understand but for my 7 year old daughter honest, i do have reasonable engine knowledge but no professional

stuck in foreign country and dont want to break down here or during return journey,

must add, seems to idle ok, not smoking badly

many thanks

vaughan
many thanks

 

[lynall]

Sounds to me like you have already unplugged the maf (mass air flow meter) and ifs it better with it connected its probably okay.

Worth looking at simple stuff first, ie fuel filter and lines, any warning lamps on?

Have you had a look at the water pump? pulley not wobbling when engine running, if i remember recent post where one had sheared off posted by brian aka230k.



Lynall



Lynall

 

[massy rider]

power loss problem

thanks for your response, no error messages on dash and fuel lines just checked and mended last month as i was suffering from what seems is a common problem of fuel starvation, although going back next week to mend slight fuel pump leek before MOT, but has run fine since diagnosis.

checked al pulleys as not sure which is water pump although would guess its below main coolant pipe into top front of engine head. seems to have no more movement than other pulleys, also checked air filter, was very dirty removed this and went for short drive, seemed to be little more responsive but still little stiffled, will hopefully replace today.

fuel starvation would be a obvious choice but seems to rev freely just doesn't move, like an american muscle car loads of noise but no go!!

regards

vaughan

 

[bennesspipers]

If ,as you say, you've got a fuel leak, its probably sucking air in, hence you're feeling that its fuel starvation, so try & find away of stopping the leak, even if its only a temporary measure (gaffer tape or exhaust gum ?)

 

[massy rider]

powerloss

had previous problem with fuel starvation and was rectified, although still has small fuel leek in pump which is being mended prior to MOT next month, this has not caused a problem since main starvation problem was sorted by replacing perised fuel lines, the symptoms of fuel starvation was loss of speed, revs and poor running and staling, normally syptoms reduced when slowed down or drove very slowly, these are not syptoms now as engine revs very freely, but it reacts as if towing 3 ton trailer, increased noise and revs but very poor or non existant excelleration. also with increased running temperature, is it normal for these engines to go up to 90 degrees.

had car for 6 months and only used to reach 80 degrees never higher

although i am in a hot climate compared to the more modest south of england weather,

any ideas

vaughan

 

[bennesspipers]

Any signs of oil in the radiator ? Whats the water level like (when cold)? Any sign of water on the dipstick ?

 

[massy rider]

my garage mechanic is a living god

phoned my garage mechanic simon came up with idea that if engine revs freely and smoothly then it would point to gearbox problems, recommended fitting a service dipstick to check oil in gearbox, as this could affect working parts, seems so obvious its bound to be wrong

any thoughts on this diagnosis?

mechanic is simon from PA diesel in ferndown ind est dorset (hope this is ok to post his details on here, sorry if this is not allowed

cheers vaughan

 

[massy rider]

sorry missed post

sorry bennesspipers missed you post ,

no oil is not emusified and coolant is clear also, also checked coolant pipes and when compressed does seem to shot coolant back into resavior so would point in part that coolant pipes are holding fluid as well

regards

 

[renault12ts]

Your mechanic is correct. If the engine is running and revving why would you think it was the engine You have lost drive. So low oil in the gearbox is the first thing to check. But you need to do a little research to find out how to make your own, or find a local MB garage where you are and see if they can sell you one or check the levels.

 

[DrNick]

Gearbox may be a red herring. I too had a 300TD that lost power, revved like mad but didn't do much (but check it by all means). The gearbox is looking for torque and the engine is revving more to try and provide it. This is really pointing to an engine power problem, usually the MAF is a prime suspect, along with leaking pipes (mine had a MAF problem and a physically loose inlet manifold).

As you have decided that the air filter is dirty, it could be worth just taking off the MAF housing and checking the unit by eye to check that nothing has got into it and is covering the element. There is a mesh screen on the inlet part of the housing as well. Its possible that something may have got past the airfilter and got caught on the screen,

Its a five minute job with a screwdriver to get the MAF housing out. Its the thing with the electrical cable coming out of it downstream of the air filter, held on with a couple of jubilee clips

Nick

 

[renault12ts]

I don't understand. If the engine is revving ( spinning ) then this is being transmitted to the gearbox. Where else is the revving going?? The crank is turning, this is linked to the torque convertor and gearbox, hence the engine is OK the gearbox is at fault. What am I missing??

 

[DrNick]

Well, I'm no expert but my understanding is that the torque converter is able to act like a torque multiplier through the fluid coupling - acts a bit like a clutch and explains why an auto box doesn't cause the engine to stall when the car is not moving.
If you ask for the car to accelerate, then extra torque is required. If more torque is required than the engine is currently generating then the engine speed can be increased to get more and to provide a differential speed through the fluid coupling in the torque converter, which leads to a multiplication of torque (don't ask me how!). Eventually this might lead to a downshift, but I imagine that if the car is generating less power than the various mappings are expecting then the electronics could get a bit confused and not know what to do.

I'm sure others can explain it better than me, but fundamentally there is no direct mechanical link between the engine and the gearbox itself, just a clever fluid coupling, so there is certainly potential for the engine revs to be able to change without a direct effect on the gearbox revs.

I have no feelings on whether low fluid would lead to the same effect. On mine, low fluid led to flared changes and eventually no changes, but not excessive revving with little change in movement. This was down to airleaks/air metering issues.

Hope that helps

 

[renault12ts]

DN you are correct re: the operation of the convertor. The engine is turning, revving, but there is no drive. So how can this be engine related since the engine is doing its part but the car will not move.

 

[markmifsud]

Is the e300 fitted with the 722.6 box? I am sure it is, if so

run the car to get the gear oild up to 80c temp, leave the engine running and put something like a curtain wire down the ATF filler tube till it hits the bottom. The oil depth should be between 54mm and 65mm.

 

[lynall]

Dont know if this engine has one but my last car a disco had massive power loss would drive fine just sloooow/ no torque and was the map sensor (manifold absolute pressure) also called boost sensor was on the inlet manifold on disco.

Worth a try as Mark has said ref the curtain rod pic is of proper dipstick top 2 marks are hot min/max.


Lynall

 

[DrNick]

DN you are correct re: the operation of the convertor. The engine is turning, revving, but there is no drive. So how can this be engine related since the engine is doing its part but the car will not move.

Because the engine is not generating enough torque, despite it revving. Just because its revving, doesn't mean its generating oomph. The convertor is making the best of a bad job by allowing the engine to rev more in the hope that more torque might be forthcoming. The gearbox controls the engine, not the other way round (Tails and dogs spring to mind)

This is what happened with mine. Excessive revving and no go was due to an air problem. Diagnosis at a distance is a dodgy occupation, so I wouldn't bet the farm on it, possibly just the stables

 

[massy rider]

well cheers for responses, no wifi in area for last few days but now back on till leave for blighty sun evening,you are right about torque converter allowing engine to rev freely as no direct connection with the wheels if it was a manual and low on power then revs would not increase without increase of speed unless clutch was nackered, but it doesnt seem to want to rev freely now, what about loss of power ie missfire or coolant problem, drove it for an hour in about 24 degree temp at about 80 when stopped front edge of bonnet was very hot!! seem to run fine until i turned the blower on in ecconomy mode only no air as temp of engine raises to approx 90 degrees although car manual states that in igh ambuent temp or mountainous areas temp can reach the red any views in thus it seems very high to me?

cheers
massy

 

[thenovice]

Potential Gearbox problem in France

Today is 20/07/10 and I have similar problem with increasing revs and hardly any movement in speedo at higher speeds. At lower speeds it changes down and down to very little gain. This is at the moment an intermittent problem. For the man on holiday in France your problem sounded identical - can you tell me how you resolved it.

 

[FazMan]

Completely different train of thought but this sort of problem can also be caused by the catalytic converter breaking up and the debris moving back in the pipe under load/revs and blocking the exhaust, hence losing torque.
The car will still rev freely when parked but if this is the fault you may notice the rate of flow from the back of the exhaust drops at revs and also banging the exhaust (when cold!) you should here the debris moving about..
Worth checking?