The end of fossil fuel

[Charles Morgan]

Where I'm going with this is, what about the thousands and thousands of caravaners that go to the continent or travel across the continent every summer?
Electric cars won't pull caravans very far and the smaller fosel engines won't cope either?
So a huge market / revenue / past time could go

Not seeing any downside with that one...

 

[njkmr]

There will be so much fuel to spare when everyone else goes to electric that I will probably be able to fuel up my slk55 for next to nowt..
Bring it on.

 

[addbuyer]

Not seeing any downside with that one...

I'm not a shed dragger either....... but it's a huge industry that France relies on

 

[Steveml63]

Hi,
Even pure electric cars are likely to still burn petrol or diesel in the future.
They will be using fuel cells that burn the fuel - to produce electricity - to drive the motors.
This will be necessary - as the grid could not cope with 100% electric vehicles on the roads that need charging every day.
Cheers
Steve

 

[renault12ts]

France will 'ban all petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040' | The Independent

 

[markjay]

France will 'ban all petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040' | The Independent

They have 58 nuclear power stations... so they can afford it.

We currently have only 15 operational nuclear power stations, serving the same population size as France (~65m).

I guess that's part of the industrial decline in the UK over the past decades.

If we want to get rid of fossil fuel we'll need to speed-up the building of new nuclear power stations (with or without the Chinese).

But as things stand.... a pure-EV future is very far away for the UK.

 

[markjay]

Interestingly often it is the same people who promote green transport who also object to nuclear power stations... well (paraphrasing on TM) there is no 'magic energy tree' and you can't have one without the other.

 

[markjay]

....unless we put to rest the EV myth and the future actually lies with Hydrogen Cell technology?

 

[zoros]

I suspect we'll go this way:
Petrol/Diesel
Hybrid
Electric
Hydrogen fuel

Electric infrastructure to supprt zillions of electric cars is not going to happen.
Too expensive.

Hydrogen cell technology is coming on in leaps and bounds and we won't need these complex hybrids/electric motors with limited range.

If any of these reports are true - classic car prices will start to cool relatively soon, I suspect.

As someone said - accessing petrol should still be relatively easy - it's just the cost that will be prohibitive.

Progress eh?

 

[rf065]

the big question mark for hybrid/electric cars in Northern climes remains reduced range in cold weather

And in hot weather too, as I found out in S. France a couple of years ago, batteries do not like heat either.

Russ

 

[markjay]

...Electric infrastructure to supprt zillions of electric cars is not going to happen.
Too expensive....

Agreed.

 

[Gbrowncls55]

Well , firstly what VOLVO actually said was that they would not introduce any NEW models with petrol or diesel only engines beyond 2019. They will continue to sell any existing models until they complete their life cycle which with Volvo is ten years plus.
Secondly Hybrids all use fossil fuel unless they are on bio, and as, as yet, the mass of electric cars a hybrid, supply will be maintained.
Thirdly as this all progresses the upshot will be a drop in demand for petrol, and in a market economy where supply and demand determine price this should be good news for petrol..... except that the treasury, seeing falling tax revenues from fuel duty, will likely try to milk the petrol driver under the holier than thou justification of saving the planet. Eventually they will have to find something evil with eco cars too in order to replace the lost tax revenue.
Finally in 30 years time (I'm dead) either the roads will be so congested that cars will be banned or nobody will want to use them anyway or (hopefully) electric cars will be so fast and exciting we will all wonder why we ever drove these big heavy uneconomical vehicles at all (as my wife regularly mentions to me now)

 

[Gbrowncls55]

Oh yes and I forgot...by then it will all be Hydrogen power anyway and elecrtic will be an oddity a bit like Betamax or the Minidisc if you are old enough to remember those.

 

[Mercy Me]

....unless we put to rest the EV myth and the future actually lies with Hydrogen Cell technology?

I agree with this.

Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology is the future in my opinion. It is clean and has a limitless supply so is cheaper. The fuel cells can be quickly refilled with hydrogen, in a process very similar to refilling with LPG, taking away the big disadvantage of electric cars, which is the recharging time of the batteries.

Toyota and Hyundai are currently the only manufacturers selling hydrogen fuel cell cars in the UK, but with our government recently making £23m available to boost the fuel cell infrastructure in the UK this is set to encourage other manufacturers to dip their toes in the water.

Elon Musk, the great electric power visionary is now dipping his toes in providing electric battery power for Australian states, and launching satellites into space with reusable rockets, which does seem to raise the question whether he sees a long term profitable future in electric cars.

 

[grober]

I would just like to point out that altho hydrogen is indeed a common element its production involves energy ---in the case of electrolysis - electrical energy. So while it may be a more energy dense fuel in terms of portability/distribution/range its difficult to escape from the energy implications of its production if hydrogen fuel cells were to become universally adopted for propulsion systems ?

 

[Vintage Racer]

2040, bl@@dy hell................. it's 1830 now, so that gives me just over two hours to go for a blast!


.

 

[Yugguy]

Just ring our wavy coastlines with wave power generators, use the energy to crack seawater to get hydrogen and oxygen.

 

[ScotCLS]

I think the age of EV's is closer than you think, as a high mileage diesel driver I've been looking closely at what my next car is likely to be if it's not diesel.

I think most hybrids are great for city driving, but for someone who can cover 130-180 miles in a day a hybrid which only cuts in under 30mph, or even a plug-in with 15-25 miles all electric, hybrid is not going to generate even half the 150-250 mpg that is often advertised.

With EV's the limiting factor is range, but if you look closely things are moving at a pace. The Tesla Model S offers 200-250 mile range, but they are expensive. But we're about to see the Tesla Model 3 at $35,000 dollars with a 200+ mile range, the Chevrolet Bolt is already available with c.200 miles (Ampera-e in Europe but may not make it to UK) and the next Leaf is due soon with 200+ mile range. On top of that the i-pace and BMW i5 are due in the next year or 2 with reported 300+mile range.

If you aren't looking for them you may not notice the amount of fast chargers popping up, and there are a lot of them. The are often "hidden" in public car parks etc, and with a 200 mile range stopping for a 30-40 minute fast charge every 2-3 hours (and for a snooze and a coffee!) is entirely doable. But with a 200 mile range you won't need the charger network but charge at home overnight, unless you are on a trip or live somewhere where you can't charge at home (flat or house with no private parking).

EV's are closer than you think, hybrids are just a stop gap.

 

[markjay]

I think the age of EV's is closer than you think, as a high mileage diesel driver I've been looking closely at what my next car is likely to be if it's not diesel.

I think most hybrids are great for city driving, but for someone who can cover 130-180 miles in a day a hybrid which only cuts in under 30mph, or even a plug-in with 15-25 miles all electric, hybrid is not going to generate even half the 150-250 mpg that is often advertised.

With EV's the limiting factor is range, but if you look closely things are moving at a pace. The Tesla Model S offers 200-250 mile range, but they are expensive. But we're about to see the Tesla Model 3 at $35,000 dollars with a 200+ mile range, the Chevrolet Bolt is already available with c.200 miles (Ampera-e in Europe but may not make it to UK) and the next Leaf is due soon with 200+ mile range. On top of that the i-pace and BMW i5 are due in the next year or 2 with reported 300+mile range.

If you aren't looking for them you may not notice the amount of fast chargers popping up, and there are a lot of them. The are often "hidden" in public car parks etc, and with a 200 mile range stopping for a 30-40 minute fast charge every 2-3 hours (and for a snooze and a coffee!) is entirely doable. But with a 200 mile range you won't need the charger network but charge at home overnight, unless you are on a trip or live somewhere where you can't charge at home (flat or house with no private parking).

EV's are closer than you think, hybrids are just a stop gap.

What is your solution for city-dwellers like myself, living in a block of flats and parking on public roads? How would we charge a pure-EV? Well I am familiar with the technology, the the question is who will pay for installing millions of charging points for public use?

On another note, we may be on our way out of the EU, but our plans need to be coordinated with the Continent - it wont work if either side bans internal combustion engines while the other does not, given that both cars and lorries will need to be able to drive back and forth and refuel or recharge.

 

[ScotCLS]

What is your solution for city-dwellers like myself, living in a block of flats and parking on public roads? How would we charge a pure-EV? Well I am familiar with the technology, the the question is who will pay for installing millions of charging points for public use?

UK Power Networks - Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea and UK Power Networks lead the charge on electric cars

As I said when you start to look at it more closely there are things happening. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing.