The end of fossil fuel

[moonloops]

The daft thing is that oil and coal are the "greenest" fuels around. Yes they are not "renewable" but when you efficiently burn what are old plants, and in the process limit harmful emissions it is still viable.

 

[markjay]

UK Power Networks - Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea and UK Power Networks lead the charge on electric cars

As I said when you start to look at it more closely there are things happening. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Interesting read.

On one hand they say:

'In outer London, 33% of households have no access to off-street parking to charge an EV, and in inner London this rises to 46%."

But the trial is for providing charging points for 6 cars.... so quite a long way to go.

Ultimately, the issue will be who pays for the installation of millions of charging points across the UK. For this reason I suspect it might never happen.

 

[grober]

The daft thing is that oil and coal are the "greenest" fuels around. Yes they are not "renewable" but when you efficiently burn what are old plants, and in the process limit harmful emissions it is still viable.

I'm not sure where that logic comes from. Burning fossil fuels with the best will in world produces the greenhouse gas CO2 unless you can sequester that from entering the atmosphere?
You are correct that fossil fuels derive from plants and aquatic organisms from eons past. It was the ability of these organisms to use the suns energy to synthesis complex organic molecules by fixing atmospheric CO2 in the process of photosynthesis that produced oil bearing rocks . So a sort of concentrated solar energy in the form of hydrocarbons. But here's the problem its not the various chemical processes that are involved that are a problem its a reaction rate phenomenon. We are releasing all that energy in hundreds of years that took millions of years to accumulate. We are effectively "short circuiting" eons of photosynthesis to the extent we are overwhelming the natural biological processes which given enough time would normally compensate .

 

[Colin_b]

What is your solution for city-dwellers like myself, living in a block of flats and parking on public roads? How would we charge a pure-EV? Well I am familiar with the technology, the the question is who will pay for installing millions of charging points for public use?

On another note, we may be on our way out of the EU, but our plans need to be coordinated with the Continent - it wont work if either side bans internal combustion engines while the other does not, given that both cars and lorries will need to be able to drive back and forth and refuel or recharge.

There are a number of possibilities - from lamp post chargers to filling stations you drive to. Impractical at the moment, certainly. A pure EV just isn't the right solution for people in your situation.

And there is a major problem with EV currently - taxation. Revenue is easy to collect for IC cars, tax the fuel. Doesn't work so easily with leccy, has a 5% tax at the moment, which is no where near enough to replace petrol/derv tax - £32 billion. So road pricing will be needed from HMGs point of view.

 

[markjay]

I'm not sure where that logic comes from. Burning fossil fuels with the best will in world produces the greenhouse gas CO2 unless you can sequester that from entering the atmosphere?
You are correct that fossil fuels derive from plants and aquatic organisms from eons past. It was the ability of these organisms to use the suns energy to synthesis complex organic molecules by fixing atmospheric CO2 in the process of photosynthesis that produced oil bearing rocks . So a sort of concentrated solar energy in the form of hydrocarbons. But here's the problem its not the various chemical processes that are involved that are a problem its a reaction rate phenomenon. We are releasing all that energy in hundreds of years that took millions of years to accumulate. We are effectively "short circuiting" eons of photosynthesis to the extent we are overwhelming the natural biological processes which given enough time would normally compensate .

Pure-EVs will remove pollution from city centres, which is where most people live. It will not eliminate pollution as such, not will it necessarily cut greenhouse gasses emission - it all depends on how you produce the energy, e.g. by burning carbon fuel, nuclear power, or renewable sources etc. But even if you use carbon fuel for generating the electricity for Pure-EVs, and do not reduce overall emissions at all, you will still have removed the pollution from city centres, which is great news in itself. Only problem is that - as said - I don't see anyone picking up the bill for the installation of millions of public charging stations.

 

[grober]

That's the danger of mixing up two separate issues in these discussions as I have said before . Localised air pollution in cities can certainly be reduced using low or zero emission vehicles. If however said technology requires electrical energy generated by fossil fuels then that does not address the wider global perspective. Not that's any reason not to address localised urban air pollution of course.

 

[Mattns]

Referring back to the cracking process chemical industry, is plastic a by-product of the petrol or petrol a by-product of the plastics industry?

Will we throw the whole process off balance if we stop dealing with all this waste (Petrol) from the plastics production, OMG where will we put it all, could we find a way to use it for the good of mankind?

Just a thought!

 

[rf065]

I don't see anyone picking up the bill for the installation of millions of public charging stations.

That problem is insignificant compared to the existing electricity infastructure not being capable of supplying these charging stations even if they were built.

Part of the "new green policy" was to remove gas central heating from homes and replace them with electric heating. Apart from it being an inferior way to run a central heating system, a study showed that the existing electricity network throughout the UK would need 3 or 4 times it's present capacity to be able to supply enough power. That would require every street in the UK to be excavated to lay bigger cables to supply more electricity, more power stations etc.

Now add in charging stations for every house or car to that and try and imagine how much it would cost to build an electricity network capable of supplying that much power. I doubt anyone could come up with enough money to even start such an undertaking?

Russ

 

[grober]

Referring back to the cracking process chemical industry, is plastic a by-product of the petrol or petrol a by-product of the plastics industry?

Will we throw the whole process off balance if we stop dealing with all this waste (Petrol) from the plastics production, OMG where will we put it all, could we find a way to use it for the good of mankind?

Just a thought!

Cracking crude oil is a pretty complex process involving lots of energy and catalysts. Alteration of the refining process changes the yield of the various fractions meaning producing more "plastic precursor" feedstock doesn't mean you have to produce more petrol feedstock at the same time. Its more of a "instead of" rather than an " as well as" situation.
It's a valid point nevertheless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracking_(chemistry)

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Perhaps those without the facility to park their cars at home should be deprived of ownership?

 

[IanGarland]

And where does the electricity come from, Hmm...... a lot of fossil fuels, No?

 

[WIN]

Thankfully I will be dead by 2040.

I intend to panic buy V8s, now!

me too

 

[WIN]

Yes i am soon to buy my first v8 as i am getting to old to worry about tomorrow and fuel.... What will be will be!!
I am 60 and can afford a V8 SO HAPPY DAYS YEPPIEE

 

[thebiglad]

And where does the electricity come from, Hmm...... a lot of fossil fuels, No?

No, less and less nowadays. More and more wind/solar/tidal. Far cheaper than nuclear !

 

[IanGarland]

No, less and less nowadays. More and more wind/solar/tidal. Far cheaper than nuclear !

Currently 25% with the aim to hit 30% so I stand by my comments.

 

[thebiglad]

Key results show:
In 2018 Q2, total electricity generated decreased by 0.7 per cent as total demand fell to 82.0 TWh compared to a year earlier. The demand decrease was largely driven by reduced domestic consumption. (Chart 5.1)

Renewables’ share of electricity generation increased from 30.6 per cent in 2017 Q2 to a record 31.7 per cent in 2018 Q2, due to increased capacity and a 10.9 per cent increase in average daily sun hours. (Chart 5.2)

Nuclear’s share of generation decreased from 23.1 per cent in the second quarter of 2017 to 21.7 per cent in the second quarter of 2018. This was due to outages at a number of large reactors, reducing available nuclear capacity. (Chart 5.2)

Generation from low carbon sources (renewables plus nuclear) provided more than half of generation, dropping 0.3 percentage points to 53.4 per cent compared to the same period last year. The small decrease in low carbon’s share of generation was a result of reduced nuclear generation being balanced by increased renewables generation. (Chart 5.3)

 

[BD E55]

Interesting topic. I'm involved in the electrical energy industry for work, and moving into chargers more and more now. Hydrogen is making huge progress in terms of roll out, although suffering from the classic chicken - egg syndrome.

A great website to view live British electricity generation mix is at:

www.mygridgb.co.uk

 

[zoros]

Since this thread was started by me a while ago - things have moved along apace.
I'm crossing over to the dark side. I have my car up for sale (currently sifting through the scam e-mails I am receiving) and I plan to purchase a BMW i8 for my sins.
Firstly I need to do some research on the consequneces of being a hybrid owner when the battery life is reached!
Then I need to see if I can live with climbing into and out of the damn thing.
But the gull wings will now force me to park away from all the tesco mums and their kids atleast!!!

 

[Gazwould]

The replacement batteries will cost a fortune and they'll introduce a tax so they can safely be disposed of .

Pruis taxi drivers with expired batteries just drive around on petrol engine whilst still enjoying the tax break .

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Since this thread was started by me a while ago - things have moved along apace.
I'm crossing over to the dark side. I have my car up for sale (currently sifting through the scam e-mails I am receiving) and I plan to purchase a BMW i8 for my sins.
Firstly I need to do some research on the consequneces of being a hybrid owner when the battery life is reached!
Then I need to see if I can live with climbing into and out of the damn thing.
But the gull wings will now force me to park away from all the tesco mums and their kids atleast!!!

My neighbor has one and parks normally in their drive.