The EV fact thread

[BTB 500]

He's explanation that this is simply due to trucks being bigger, but there are other equally convincing arguments: that a truck typically covers more annual miles than a private car, and possibly the fatal crashes per mile rate is the same; that trucks have large diesel fuel tanks which can rapture and cause death far more that a small petrol tank catching fire can; that trucks are more likely to be carrying a flammable or toxic load that can cause death; etc.

For vehicle fires 'in general', IIRC truck (and perhaps van) fires are commonly caused either by something they're transporting or by a fault in secondary equipment on the vehicle (e.g. a refrigeration unit). Again these all get logged as diesel vehicle fires. All the fires in the channel tunnel to date have been on their HGV trains.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

We recently switched to Eon NextDrive, an energy tariff which offers overnight electricity at 6.7p kWh between 0000 and 0700, so 7 hours/day, and reasonable peak time rates for gas and electricity.

I have just set the charging schedule for our Fiat 500e EV to charge between these times, which even on a 3-pin charger should add 16 kWh overnight, but there may be an unknown amount inefficiency.

At a charging rate of 2.3 kWh/h and billed at 6.7 p/kWh that equates to £1.08 per night. At the average consumption of 4.2 mi/kWh over the last 12,593 miles, that equates to 1.6 p/mile when charged off peak at home.

Comparing that to our Smart ForFour 1.0 N/A which has an average consumption of 52.8 MPG over the last 2,850 miles, at 142.9 p/litre (today), that equates to 12.3 p/mile, so that’s more than 7x more expensive.

That’a quite remarkable. Even at 26 p/kWh (peak rate) it’s only 6.5 p/mile or around half the cost of the Smart ForFour. Paying full peak rate at our local Tesla Supercharger (56 p/kWh) 13.4 p/mile so a little more than the Smart.

All consumption rates are as stated today on the cluster over an extended period, and all costs are based upon actual fuel and electricity prices paid today for each specific car. No attempt has been made to factor in efficiency or accuracy.

 

[markjay]

...All consumption rates are as stated today on the cluster over an extended period, and all costs are based upon actual fuel and electricity prices paid today for each specific car. No attempt has been made to factor in efficiency or accuracy.

Ah, but you didn't factor-in depreciation, the higher cost of motor insurance due to the need to replace the battery after each minor shunt, or the cost of the increased tyre wear due to the extra weight - everything considered, you're running a loss here mate!

 

[BTB 500]

Comparing that to our Smart ForFour 1.0 N/A which has an average consumption of 52.8 MPG over the last 2,850 miles, at 142.9 p/litre (today), that equates to 12.3 p/mile, so that’s more than 7x more expensive.

142.9 seems very expensive for unleaded? 132.9 at our local Shell station in Market Drayton today, and 131.9 at Morrisons. That would be 9.77p per mile, but of course no ICE will currently match off-peak overnight home charging (even with losses included).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

142.9 seems very expensive for unleaded? 132.9 at our local Shell station in Market Drayton today, and 131.9 at Morrisons. That would be 9.77p per mile, but of course no ICE will currently match off-peak overnight home charging (even with losses included).

It is expensive, but that’s the going rate around here, and I have no idea why. Even the darkest corners of North Devon are around 10p less than expensive per litre than here.

I try to fill up where it’s less expensive, ie not here, but that’s not always possible. Like I said in the post last night, I used actual costs incurred by me, on those cars on the day of calculation.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Ah, but you didn't factor-in depreciation, the higher cost of motor insurance due to the need to replace the battery after each minor shunt

When the Fiat 500e was insured in my name it cost less than the Smart ForFour (with the same NCB, the same drivers and the same insurer) which in itself is odd as the Smart is a group 2 and the Fiat is much higher, group 16 springs to mind.

Perhaps that’s because the Fiat is fast for a city car but it is just a city car and relatively slow compared to other EVs. Whereas some other EVs have the performance of a supercar - or even faster - at road speeds, and so the insurance premiums reflect it.

 

[Will]

142.9 seems very expensive for unleaded? 132.9 at our local Shell station in Market Drayton today, and 131.9 at Morrisons. That would be 9.77p per mile, but of course no ICE will currently match off-peak overnight home charging (even with losses included).

It’s interesting as although BD mentioned today’s price of fuel, he also mentioned the figures over the last few thousand miles.

Of course fuels like petrol have always been quite volatile and pricing has been subject to change unexpectedly - within the last few years it’s been as low as just over £1/litre and at one point it was almost £2.

Does anyone ever factor in the losses of driving to and from a petrol station to fill up? Sometimes it’s en route, but not always - and we’ve all been there where there’s a delivery taking place or the fuel you need it out of stock!

Would need a huge amount of losses to make any sort of dent in the real world figures illustrated about though!

 

[Mactech]

We recently switched to Eon NextDrive, an energy tariff which offers overnight electricity at 6.7p kWh between 0000 and 0700, so 7 hours/day, and reasonable peak time rates for gas and electricity.

I have just set the charging schedule for our Fiat 500e EV to charge between these times, which even on a 3-pin charger should add 16 kWh overnight, but there may be an unknown amount inefficiency.

At a charging rate of 2.3 kWh/h and billed at 6.7 p/kWh that equates to £1.08 per night. At the average consumption of 4.2 mi/kWh over the last 12,593 miles, that equates to 1.6 p/mile when charged off peak at home.

Comparing that to our Smart ForFour 1.0 N/A which has an average consumption of 52.8 MPG over the last 2,850 miles, at 142.9 p/litre (today), that equates to 12.3 p/mile, so that’s more than 7x more expensive.

That’a quite remarkable. Even at 26 p/kWh (peak rate) it’s only 6.5 p/mile or around half the cost of the Smart ForFour. Paying full peak rate at our local Tesla Supercharger (56 p/kWh) 13.4 p/mile so a little more than the Smart.

All consumption rates are as stated today on the cluster over an extended period, and all costs are based upon actual fuel and electricity prices paid today for each specific car. No attempt has been made to factor in efficiency or accuracy.

There! That was EV enough to do wasn't it
If you swap the Fiat for an i3 and Eon Nextdrive for Octopus Go you arrive where I have been for a little while now.
Oddly, I sell my solar energy to Eon Next (they give the best rates in my specific case) so maybe your Fiat is actually running on Norfolk sunshine....just now and again

 

[BTB 500]

Oddly, I sell my solar energy to Eon Next (they give the best rates in my specific case) so maybe your Fiat is actually running on Norfolk sunshine....just now and again

I sell mine to Scottish Power - the shipping costs are a nightmare though

 

[BTB 500]

Comparing that to our Smart ForFour 1.0 N/A which has an average consumption of 52.8 MPG over the last 2,850 miles, at 142.9 p/litre (today), that equates to 12.3 p/mile, so that’s more than 7x more expensive.

Silly question perhaps, but why do you run the ForFour rather than an equivalent EV?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Silly question perhaps, but why do you run the ForFour rather than an equivalent EV?

We bought it back in 2019 for my daughter to learn to drive a manual and kept it for my son to learn to drive a manual too.

In practice, after passing their test they will probably drive EVs initially and modern relatively powerful cars later, so they’ll not really need a manual licence.

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[BTB 500]

We wanted BTB Jr to get a manual licence as it was very likely he'd be owning/driving older cars in the short/medium term, many of which are manuals. Driving schools currently still offer manuals but given that they use new cars that will become tricky if/when only BEVs and hybrids are available.

 

[Bellow]

Ah, but you didn't factor-in depreciation, the higher cost of motor insurance due to the need to replace the battery after each minor shunt, or the cost of the increased tyre wear due to the extra weight - everything considered, you're running a loss here mate!

Or the replacing of a battery at absurdly low age and mileage - as with your own car MJ. No need for fiction, the facts suffice.

 

[SmartAmg]

Or the replacing of a battery at absurdly low age and mileage - as with your own car MJ. No need for fiction, the facts suffice.

Yeh, but Sh1t happens. Always will. The actual percentage of EVs where the battery has failed is probably tiny, compared to the amount of EVs sold.
Much the same as total engine failure is tiny, compared to ICE vehicle's sold.
Let's not blow it out of all proportion.

 

[markjay]

Or the replacing of a battery at absurdly low age and mileage - as with your own car MJ. No need for fiction, the facts suffice.

It didn't increase my running costs though....

 

[Bellow]

It didn't increase my running costs though....

There is a cost - just not to you.

 

[markjay]

There is a cost - just not to you.

Actually it is a cost to me (among others), just not directly.

There's also a cost to building roads. And petrol stations. And EV charging stations. Etc.

These are all indirect costs that the public incurs one way or the other.

But back to the discussion - it was about running costs.

Warranty repairs do not affect a vehicle's running costs.

 

[Bellow]

Actually it is a cost to me (among others), just not directly.

There's also a cost to building roads. And petrol stations. And EV charging stations. Etc.

These are all indirect costs that the public incurs one way or the other.

Yeah, but they actually last long enough to amortise their cost.

But back to the discussion - it was about running costs.

Warranty repairs do not affect a vehicle's running costs.

Wow! A magic money tree!

 

[markjay]

...Wow! A magic money tree!

Not really... Those who charge their EVs at home pay only 5% VAT on their domestic electricity, ans so effectively their running costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.

 

[SmartAmg]

Not really... Those who charge their EVs at home pay only 5% VAT on their domestic electricity, ans so effectively their running costs are subsidised by the taxpayer.

A nice little perk, and why not. Until of course they catch up with them. Like they have Road Tax. I'm all for the odd little perk. After all, they Screw us enough on everything else.