The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

Looks good.

However... while 175kW charging speed for the single motor car and 200kW for the dual motor variant is not as abysmal as MB's 100kW, and certainly good enough for any pan-Continental journey, it is still disappointing that I'll need to settle for slower charging than what my 4 years old car can do now. You'd have thought that the tech would go forward, not backwards.

But what's the real world benefit?

Even "if" 200kW commercial chargers were commonly available.

And then, of course, there are all the other features / benefit / performance elements.

Charging speeds still exceed the speed you can drink coffee and pee.

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[Steveml63]

Charging maximum speed is actually less important than the charging curve.
Less efficient cars with a higher initial charging speed may still take longer to receive a charge than a car with a lower headline charging top speed.
The rate of charge starts fast but then tails off as the battery takes on charge.
This is due to heat, efficiency and the onboard electronics system that controls the charging rate.

 

[Mactech]

Charging maximum speed is actually less important than the charging curve.
Less efficient cars with a higher initial charging speed may still take longer to receive a charge than a car with a lower headline charging top speed.
The rate of charge starts fast but then tails off as the battery takes on charge.
This is due to heat, efficiency and the onboard electronics system that controls the charging rate.

Yes, even with my 'vintage' i3 and having only done 4 charges outside my own garage in 2 years of ownership, I have learned that it is not time effective to charge to much more than 80% on a 'fast' charger.
The change in mindset in driving an EV compared to an ICE car is a much larger obstacle to overcome than any infrastructure or deficiencies in EVs.
Fortunately, most humans are amazingly adaptable

 

[SmartAmg]

Even at the top of the Austrian alps, we are so behind..
View attachment 173358

OK, taped off for repainting but a charging point for EVs @3500m ...

Looks like they are well used, too.

 

[markjay]

But what's the real world benefit?

Even "if" 200kW commercial chargers were commonly available.

And then, of course, there are all the other features / benefit / performance elements.

Charging speeds still exceed the speed you can drink coffee and pee.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

There's no real benefit to having 220kW over 200kW charging. It is just disappointing that VW don't seem to have caught up with the tech. It also makes you wonder what other bits of tech they're behind with.

But MB having only 100kW on the EQB is a real shame - it would make a difference during trips to Switzerland, where there are ultrafast charges along the route - it will turn a 15 minute stop to a 40 minute stop, and that's significant.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Charging maximum speed is actually less important than the charging curve.
Less efficient cars with a higher initial charging speed may still take longer to receive a charge than a car with a lower headline charging top speed.
The rate of charge starts fast but then tails off as the battery takes on charge.
This is due to heat, efficiency and the onboard electronics system that controls the charging rate.

How can you find out the charging curve though?....is that the sort or info that's in the handbook?...like the max charge speed...or just something that you find out during ownership? Also is the actual charge speed displayed on the charger (or in the car) when charging so you know the present charge rate? No plans to get an EV just interested.

 

[markjay]

Charging maximum speed is actually less important than the charging curve.
Less efficient cars with a higher initial charging speed may still take longer to receive a charge than a car with a lower headline charging top speed.
The rate of charge starts fast but then tails off as the battery takes on charge.
This is due to heat, efficiency and the onboard electronics system that controls the charging rate.

The Hyundai has battery preconditioning (battery warmer)... VW don't mention anything about that, so it's unclear if they have it too.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Why? Have you not read the terrible reviews. Dreadful cars by all accounts.

I haven’t.

@markjay commented; that he was unable to find a mid-size SUV EV from a Chinese marque so I was about to suggest it

I was blown away by some of the YouTube reviews of Chines EVs, but sadly the Chinese marques currently selling in the UK - BYD, Zeeker, MG, Polestar - do not sell their SUVs over here for some reason (I guess these are for the American market).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The only folks that seem to struggle in the "current" climate are people with early EV's trying to use them for regular long distance work.

Even then I suspect the number of people with an early EV (or later EV with short range) don’t really use them for regular long distance journeys. The few who do will know that their car is the limiting factor rather than the infrastructure.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Looks good.

However... while 175kW charging speed for the single motor car and 200kW for the dual motor variant is not as abysmal as MB's 100kW, and certainly good enough for any pan-Continental journey, it is still disappointing that I'll need to settle for slower charging than what my 4 years old car can do now. You'd have thought that the tech would go forward, not backwards.

If you’re struggling to find something you prefer, can’t you sit tight with what you have or replace like for like?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Also is the actual charge speed displayed on the charger (or in the car) when charging so you know the present charge rate? No plans to get an EV just interested.

Yes the charger or app will state the actual charging rate at that moment, even if the car doesn’t.

I’ve seen our Fiat 500e charge at 37 kWh even though it’s rated at only 22 kWh so around 25 minutes will take it from 10% to 80% charge.

 

[Steveml63]

How can you find out the charging curve though?....is that the sort or info that's in the handbook?...like the max charge speed...or just something that you find out during ownership? Also is the actual charge speed displayed on the charger (or in the car) when charging so you know the present charge rate? No plans to get an EV just interested.

There are quite a few sites that have charge curves for each vehicle model.
Below is one such site - I looked up our BMWiX40 on that site and it shows the charge rate vs %tage state of charge.
As discussed above - fast charging starts at a high rate then tails off as the battery fills up!

BMW

Fastned | Nature inspired fast charging

www.fastnedcharging.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But MB having only 100kW on the EQB is a real shame - it would make a difference during trips to Switzerland, where there are ultrafast charges along the route - it will turn a 15 minute stop to a 40 minute stop, and that's significant.

For the benefit of those who don’t understand how “onerous” charging can be, here’s an ID7 going from Womble HQ to Samoens in the French Alps, just outside Geneva. (I do this trip some summers: it’s “cheap as chips” off season)

An eleven hour journey with precisely one hour’s charging: three 20 minute stops. (From ABRP: A Better Route Planner)

I haven’t cast the numbers for a slow Mercedes, but most will see the point. On an day long drive, it’s the human that needs the stops more than the EV.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

For the benefit of those who don’t understand how “onerous” charging can be, here’s an ID7 going from Womble HQ to Samoens in the French Alps, just outside Geneva. (I do this trip some summers: it’s “cheap as chips” off season)

An eleven hour journey with precisely one hour’s charging: three 20 minute stops. (From ABRP: A Better Route Planner)

I haven’t cast the numbers for a slow Mercedes, but most will see the point. On an day long drive, it’s the human that needs the stops more than the EV.

View attachment 173431

For comparison here’s the same journey with a bog standard VW ID3. (£13k for a four year old with standard battery)

Two hours of charging for the 52kwh battery

 

[ALFAitalia]

Even the ferry is a minute faster with the ID7!!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Even the ferry is a minute faster with the ID7!!

Dang, I knew someone could catch me out.
Full disclosure: first was Samoens to London, the second London to Samoens, and both were scheduled at time of calculation,
rather than at the more likely "usual" early morning time of departure.