TMC Update

[tvcam]

Clarky

I was talking broadly about both systems, the CD and DVD.

We know the CD system has working TMC with TeleAtlas own brand discs.

The Mercedes CD and DVD does not have working TMC to date. I have got both systems, the CD version in my 2002 ML, and the DVD version in wifes 2005 C Class

Hopefully if your right, they may leave the Comand CD version alone, and let TeleAtlas supply the TMC coded discs as they can now..

MB may just concentrate on the DVD Comand because it is the current Comand unit which is slowly being fiitted to all models, even though the Harmon Kardon audio is a lot worse that the Bose it replaced..!!!!

Steve

 

[glojo]

Hopefully if your right, they may leave the Comand CD version alone, and let TeleAtlas supply the TMC coded discs as they can now..

Hi Steve,
I note how you refer to TeleAtlas, does Mercedes-Benz use two different types of navigational software on new vehicles, or have they changed suppliers from Navtech, or finally am I totally confused and my vehicle actually has TeleAtlas software?


Ooops just found my latest correspondance TeleAtlas write the software for the M class and Viano.
Regards,
John

I am going to have to write another letter

 

[garystu1965]

My guess is still down to having to buy a DVD upgrade, but this guess is only for the 211/S class DVD system as I have absolutely no knowledge about the other models.

My CD based COMAND shows TMC but says it's not enabled (or similar message) so I reckon it does work just by getting the updated disk based on what Steve has said.

 

[tvcam]

John.. Its not easy I know.. you have my full support

Clarky.. So how do you know Stuart Marks.. thats a bit of a long ball.. are you working for MB or TeleAtlas or NavTech.. tell me to mind my own business if you like, I wont be offended

Steve

 

[saorbust]

Steve - I work for none of those companies, I've met Stuart as part of some research I did into an article I wrote on TMC when it first appeared for the CD based system.

For TMC to work on the DVD based system, the disc must have the location / translation codes. These are different for each country - hence the DVD disc works abroad for TMC in that country. For legal reasons (MB do not own the TMC broadcast rights in this country) they aren't on the disc for the UK - as its a COMMERICAL license. In Europe its not.

Hence you will have to buy a new DVD, with the correct codes, once one is made avaliable commerically.

Clarky.

 

[glojo]

Hence you will have to buy a new DVD, with the correct codes, once one is made avaliable commerically.

Hi Clarky,
Totally agree with every word you have wrote. What will your guess be for the upgrade?

When I complained about three upgrade DVD's being released within 12 months Mercedes-BenzUK told me my system will work 'perfectly' without buying any upgrades?? Well, I have decided to write back now and hold them to their word. My system has the TMC facility, it works perfectly in 'some' parts of Europe. It does not work (obviously) here. It was installed when I bought the vehicle and I WANT it working!

Regards,
John

Whats the betting they disagree?

 

[saorbust]

Hi John,

Personally I think it will be in the order of another £50 or so. Given the DVD is over 380 already its not such a big difference as the CD price. I have absolutely no idea though so don't hold me to it !

As for MB - worth registering your complaint. At the end of the day its all pressure on MB to increase their TTM for the product.

I don't think I'll take your bet !

Forgot to add - if anyone wants a copy of the article I mentioned - I have a raw text version which will give you a flavour - without the graphics. Alternatively join the other club.... PM if so.

 

[glojo]

Hi John,

Would be curious to hear how you got on. I have TMC in the CLK (CD based version before everyone jumps), but...

1; Only works on Motorways (DVD version gets over this I hear)
2; Requires you tune into Classic FM (Carrier) for reception - ie, listen to CD's !

Very sorry about the delay in answering your question. 'The Boss' took the van to have the aerial fitted and I still cannot find its location. (they state it is on 'a window')

I have played with a few buttons and the first thing of interest was that the tuner can be tuned into any radio station, BUT........... The TMC somehow gets its signal from Classic. There must be a seperate electronic gizzmo inside the system that allows it to receive the signal. It also displays how many radio stations transmit the signal. It just shows 'Classic'

I then checked on 'Information'
It informed me of: 'Slow moving traffic at Chudliegh on the A38' So it does take in 'A' roads as well as motorways.

We will not be going on any actual motoway journeys for a while, but when I am feeling okay I will type in a route from Torquay to perhaps Nurenburg and see if it highlights any delays.

Being a DVD system it updates very quickly and works out new routes almost straight away. If you fail to turn right when instructed, it will usually have worked out a new route within 30 metres if you are travelling in town at about the proper speed

It is difficult to compare the two systems, but my wife believes the Pioneer gives better verbal instructions. However I am always present in the van and will be looking at the monitor and advising her of where to turn, which helps clarify the verbal instruction from the system.

Bye for now,
John

 

[glojo]

Here we go again.

I wrote to Mercedes-Benz UK and stated that I believed TMC was soon to be activated and I expected my COMAND to be able to receive the signal without incurring any further expense on my part.

Whoops.

Exact quote

***** Thank you for your further letter.

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify my meaning in our previous letters regarding the "updates" to your vehicle. This only relates to the updated DVD disc for your navigation system and in that respect, is not compulsory to purchase. This should not be referred to for any other updates your vehicle may require.

With reference to the TMC system, I am pleased to confirm that we have now signed a new contract with ITIS and hope to launch the TMC service in the later part of this year.

I trust this is the information you require.

Yours sincerely,


..........
Resolution Specialist
Escalation Team
****************************************

The letter completely fails to answer my question regarding the payment for an upgrade disc solely to make something work, that I have already paid for.

I suppose I need to find a member of the legal profession that owns a 211 with DVD COMAND and listen to their expert opinion on this issue?

Are you out there???

Regards,
John

 

[tvcam]

John.. I am no expert.. But the content of the letter looks right.. and remember it is only talking about the DVD Comand (disc via Navteq)

When my ML eventually got TMC and the Active Route Guidance working (CD version disc direct from TeleAtlas) it was as the letter you have received says, by the purchase of a newer mapping disc.

So as well as getting the latest maps/data you will also get the software/coding on the same disc to activate the TMC. The choice will be yours to buy the newer disc with or without TMC coding. Or just keep the disc you have with older mapping informtion and no TMC operation.

Does this help

I can't understand why they need to delay it to the end of the year.. that prob means 2006 year for us on an upgrade and August 05 for the new MB models.. Yet another year

Steve

 

[saorbust]

I have played with a few buttons and the first thing of interest was that the tuner can be tuned into any radio station, BUT........... The TMC somehow gets its signal from Classic. There must be a seperate electronic gizzmo inside the system that allows it to receive the signal. It also displays how many radio stations transmit the signal. It just shows 'Classic'

I then checked on 'Information'
It informed me of: 'Slow moving traffic at Chudliegh on the A38' So it does take in 'A' roads as well as motorways.

Bye for now,
John

John,

Superb news. The Tuner information is particularly good - lets hope the same architecture is in the MB system. You are right re the dual tuner setup - its the dual receivers thats important as well !

The A road confirms what I've already seen in demo.

Thanks again,
Jonathon

 

[glojo]

When my ML eventually got TMC (CD version disc direct from TeleAtlas) and the Active Route Guidance working it was, as the letter you have received says, by the purchase of a newer mapping disc.

Hi Steve,
I understand what you are saying but our systems are different.

There will NOT be two upgrade versions of the DVD offered. (One with TMC, the other without). I say this not through prior knowledge but solely due to the fact that my DVD already has TMC coding for Europe wrote on it. No European country is offered a seperate 'cheaper' DVD without the TMC coding. Which at most must surely only be a very few lines.

My vehicle has TMC, it WORKS in Europe, I paid for a vehicle that has TMC and I think it a cheek that I should pay extra to have it work. Imagine if you were charged for each radio station you received. I have already paid for the 'radio' to receive the transmitting station (Classic FM)

Each 'upgrade' DVD that has been released for both the new S and E class have not only new mapping information, but also UPGRADES for the actual COMAND navigation system.

My complaints are that any upgrade to the actual working system should be free for at the very least the first 12 months of the vehicles life and not £370 per disc. I have no idea how much the CD version is and cannot comment, but there have been three upgrades for my system since March last year and each one has cost the price I have mentioned (that includes VAT) and each one has had upgrade information that no doubt are relevant to my system.

I cannot visualise the TMC disc being any cheaper and would not be surprised if Mercedes-Benz even put a premium on top of the basic cost of the DVD.

As stated the ML and Vaniao have different systems which I cannot comment on.


Regards,
John

 

[tvcam]

Hi Jonathon.. I wrote this on post 14 on this string...

Comand DVD navigation unit (uses NAVTEQ discs) has dual tuners, one passive just for TMC data reception, so you can listen to radio station other than Classic FM..!!

Hi John

Yes you are right you do have TMC coding for main land Europe, but that is because it is free in those countries. It is only in the UK TMC coding is chargeable.. Good old Brit business Marketing boys and gilrs have stuffed us

Steve

 

[Mr E]

Hi guys,

Having digested the thread contents again with the latest info, I've been speaking to the lease company that supplies / manages our fleet. They were very interested to hear of the saga (I also emailed them a link to the thread as well) as there is a possible financial impact (possible refund) as well as customer satisfaction issues.

My argument is very simple - I chose COMAND on the basis of TMC/Dynamic Route Guidance. The function availability was confirmed (the function works in countries where TMC is available) and I checked whether TMC was avaliable in the UK. At no time was there any mention that UK functionality would not be available or that I would have to pay to have it added.

The lease company seem to be very sympathetic, and I'll post updates accordingly. Perhaps the added weight of a major lease company raising this issue will move MBUK's position forward.

 

[calum]

My argument is very simple - I chose COMAND on the basis of TMC/Dynamic Route Guidance.

Playing Devil's Advocate: does it actually say in the MB literature that COMAND has TMC/DRG?

 

[calum]

The brochure says "COMAND [...] offering dynamic route guidance".

Still, I think this is misleading advertising, rather than a legal issue.

On the downside: we'd all want map upgrades anyway, wouldn't we?

 

[tvcam]

yes

 

[glojo]

Playing Devil's Advocate: does it actually say in the MB literature that COMAND has TMC/DRG?

Hi calum,
Reasonable question. You get an 212 page manual when specifying the COMAND option. From page 162 to page 165 it shows you how to use your Dynamic Route Guidance with TMC. It also refers to it in numerous other places in the manual.

HOWEVER (me playing Devils Advocate)
The manual also states...

Mercedes-Benz constantly updates its systems to the latest technological standards and therefore retains the right to implement changes in design, equipment and technology. Thus no liability can be derived from statements, illustrations and descriptions contained in this manual.

Then on another page.
Dynamic route guidance is not possible in all countries at present. It might be possible to update the COMAND using a newer navigation DVD.

This is the nitty gritty area and the one I have been writing to Mercedes-Benz about.

It then goes on to state

*** A TMC station transmits free TMC traffic messages in addition to its regular radio programme. ******* (I accept that in the UK this is not the case)

Over to you,
John

Edit:
Regarding the question of map upgrades.

Yes I would love to have a yearly type map upgrade service and would perhaps consider a £50 yearly subscription fee.

BUT we are talking so far of three upgrades in twelve months and costs in excess of £1100 just for minor upgrades??

 

[calum]

yup, I'm not arguiing at all; just wondering what the Sale of Goods Act position was. I don't think the user manual would affect that anyway, even if it doesn't have disclaimers, since it isn't presented as part of the "invitation to treat" that precedes the sale.

However, the brochure does mention DRG. Still, it also has the disclaimers, so that wouldn't help.

As John says, the real nub of the issue is the price of the updates. If it were a yearly £50 fee, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, I think

 

[glojo]

yup, I'm not arguiing at all; just wondering what the Sale of Goods Act position was. I don't think the user manual would affect that anyway, even if it doesn't have disclaimers, since it isn't presented as part of the "invitation to treat" that precedes the sale.

However, the brochure does mention DRG. Still, it also has the disclaimers, so that wouldn't help.

As John says, the real nub of the issue is the price of the updates. If it were a yearly £50 fee, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, I think

Hi again Calum,
I totally agree with everything you have said. Brochures and manuals will always have small print 'opt outs' I cannot imagine anyone going into a sales room and getting a signed declaration from a sales person stating the the sale was only agreed on the proviso that it had a working TMC system. I personally would be impressed if a sales person had heard of TMC and actually knew how to fully work the COMAND system.

I just wonder how many of us here have this latest COMAND system and what, if any influence we could bring to bear? (I think perhaps no influence whatsoever)

Thanks for your advice,
John