TMC Update

[Billy]

My car (E211) was serviced last week & as part of all the recalls it had I was given a new DVD Satnav disc.

It does not show the M6 Toll on the map but when you drive along the toll road the dash display says "M6 Toll" work that one out!!

 

[glojo]

My car (E211) was serviced last week & as part of all the recalls it had I was given a new DVD Satnav disc.

Hi Billy,
Boy have you thrown in a leg breaker. Have you any idea why they gave you a new DVD? Have you any documentation that explains this? (Unlikely I know)

I do not want to make waves if you were given the DVD as a good will gesture by your local dealer.

Well done for getting it and was it version four?

Regards,
John

 

[Billy]

Excuse my ignorance but why the leg breaker?

Just been out to the car & removed the disc, the disc is version 4.1, numbers on the disc are:
A 211 827 81 59 & B6782 3395. No documentation but I can ask the question, the car goes in today.

 

[calum]

version 4.1 in mine, too.

 

[calum]

I note that on the back of the 4.1 DVD case it lists 22 countries "available on the DVD", and then separately lists 7 of those countries under "TMC coverage". Those 7 are: D, A, DK, North I, NL, CH, S.

 

[glojo]

Excuse my ignorance but why the leg breaker?

Just been out to the car & removed the disc, the disc is version 4.1, numbers on the disc are:
A 211 827 81 59 & B6782 3395. No documentation but I can ask the question, the car goes in today.

Sorry for my termology. We were all convinced Version 4 was tye latest update, but both yourself and another member have 4.1? That means in twelve months there have now been THREE updates?

I wonder if we are all entitled to receive version 4.1? Thanks very much for your post.

John

 

[prprandall51]

I am very confident that I had TMC coverage in France earlier this year (V4.0 disk). Wierd.

Have you 4.1 owners noticed any difference between 4.0 and 4.1?

For those who received 4.1 in a new car: Do you mind if I ask when your car was manufactured (most accurate figure usually comes from the bottom of the ashtray or similar component - then add two weeks)? Mine was manufactured in lated November 2004 (though I didn't collect it until late Jan 2005) and I got a V4.0 disk. I feel robbed...

 

[calum]

I remember someone saying TMC worked in France, so was surprised not to see F on the list of coverage.

I picked up my car on Tuesday; the EU conformance certificate says 11/04. I don't have an ashtray though. Tell me something else to look at and I'll go and see.

 

[prprandall51]

Hi Callum, from memory, the little square pot that sits in the middle of the centre armrest / console (where cup holders go if your dealer offered them to you as an option...). On the bottom it will have two or three roundels - three I think - indicating day, month and year of build.

With Just in Time manufacturing, it is highly unlikely that this (or any other simialr item in the car) was made more than two to three weeks before the car was assembled.

Got to sign off for the night. Thanks for looking. Catch up tomorrow.

Philip

 

[calum]

hi Philip,

the little square pot that sits in the middle of the centre armrest / console (where cup holders go if your dealer offered them to you as an option...). On the bottom it will have two or three roundels - three I think - indicating day, month and year of build.

I had a look; it's not that easy to decipher. There are three roundels as you say.

The first is labelled in a circle "12..3..6..9" which suggests month, and is marked with an arrow pointing to 11, I assume November.

The second is labelled 0123456789, with markings inside of a 0 and a bar with a line across it, not pointing to any of the labels in particular. Not immediately obvious what this denotes.

The third is labelled 1-10 in Roman numerals, and the arrow points between the V and VI. Again, not clear what this is.

 

[glojo]

I didn't collect it until late Jan 2005) and I got a V4.0 disk. I feel robbed...

Evening,
I know the feeling. I took delivery in February last year, and in the beginning of March version 3 was released. Hence all my correspondance with Mercedes-Benz UK.

I am still of the opinion that these 'updates' should be free for the first twelve months. Not only do they contain updated information for the mapping, they usually have upgrades to the system. The main one I have noticed is the COMAND now accepts full post codes.

Unfortunately I hit a brick wall at Mercedes-Benz and got nowhere, hence my query about the dealer giving 4.1 as part of an 'upgrade'.

Regards,
John

 

[craigyb]

Just to make you feel a bit better, Audi still don't have TMC working in the UK for their DVD based Navigation systems. So your not alone. I fitted one into my S8 yesterday and everything works fine except for TMC.

 

[glojo]

Just to make you feel a bit better, Audi still don't have TMC working in the UK for their DVD based Navigation systems. So your not alone. I fitted one into my S8 yesterday and everything works fine except for TMC.

I have it on my Sprinter though.

John

 

[prprandall51]

I have it on my Sprinter though.

John

Hi John,
Bearing in mind that some MB vehicles already have access to TMC in their navigation systems, I assume that these are all Blaupunkt-based systems? Do you know if this is the case?

Can I ask you (and any other contributors who have TMC) what the service is like, in your opinion? Does the traffic data seem comprehensive, accurate, up-to-date, etc.?

I know that the forthcoming E-class TMC service will utilise ITIS data but I am a little disappointed that there are no TrafficMaster-based TMC services available, since their data is ideally suited to dynamic route calculation.

I am therefore wondering how good the service will be and whether it will be worth the cost of the new navigation disk when it comes out.

thanks
Philip

 

[Shude]

Bearing in mind that some MB vehicles already have access to TMC in their navigation systems, I assume that these are all Blaupunkt-based systems? Do you know if this is the case?

Kinda. Older comand units and "autopilot" navs are made by Bosch/Blaupunkt, newer ones are Harmon-Becker. I suspect that both Harmon-Becker and Bosch/Blaupunkt have some financial or organisational interest in the current comand units.

 

[glojo]

Hi John,
Can I ask you (and any other contributors who have TMC) what the service is like, in your opinion? Does the traffic data seem comprehensive, accurate, up-to-date, etc.?

Hi Philip,
Fortunately, or unfortunately my navigation system in the Sprinter is an additional 'toy' that was fitted prior to my taking delivery. It is the Pioneer DVD system and appears very good.

I am fully conversant with the navigation system, but the TMC upgrade was only carried out after my Lincolnshire Christmas break so I have not really had a chance to evaluate that side of it.

Whenever the TMC signal is being received a little coloured box appears on the lower right of the screen which states 'Classic TMC' (or very similar) You can then access all the TMC information that is being broadcast. For example if there was a traffic delay on the A14 at Norwich, I simply click on that line and it takes me to the point on the map. Reading the instruction manual I am reliably informed that the Dynamic Routing would take this into account and alter my route accordingly without any input from the driver.

I am hoping that the E-class will operate in a similar fashion as the navigational software is wrote by the same company. I am led to believe that the TMC licence itself is purchased from ITIS so that should not influence how Navtech write the software???

What is your view on this please?

Regards,
John

 

[prprandall51]

Hi John, Navtech don't write the navigation software - that's done by the hardware manufacturer (Pioneer, Becker, Blaupunkt, etc.) - they only provide the mapping data. So the quality of the TMC implementation is entirely down to the abilities of the software writers of each system - two navigation systems sharing mapping data from Navteq (or TeleAtlas) could be wildly different in their dynamic routing capabilities.

The good news is that when I picked up my car from the factory and went on a little tour of northern europe the TMC worked brilliantly (once it took me on an extended drive off the Autobahn and then dropped me back on the autobahn about 500 metres beyond an enormous smash. The on-screen information is very impressive and the appearance of a little breakdown truck icon on the Comand display map to indicate that the accident is being cleared up is simply magical!

The (bad?) news is that the best data for dynamic route guidance is undoubtedly the TrafficMaster data, since this is extremely comprehensive flow-based data (you can see their extensive coverage simply from the number of monitors they have up - they are on every major road and monitor 24/7). However TrafficMaster data isn't an option for us, so that is why I am eager to hear reports of the quality of ITIS data.

Their collection methods are good in theory but I wonder how much actual reliable data they are able to collect as they don't use sensors. ITIS depend on tracked vehicles being out on the roads and also on interpreting incident-based data. Incident data is great for traffic bulletins but fairly useless for dynamic guidance.

Philip

 

[glojo]

Their collection methods are good in theory but I wonder how much actual reliable data they are able to collect as they don't use sensors. ITIS depend on tracked vehicles being out on the roads and also on interpreting incident-based data. Incident data is great for traffic bulletins but fairly useless for dynamic guidance.

Hi Philip,
I just knew I could rely on you to come up with the goodies. From what I have seen of all the different hold-ups and delays they look very similar to the alerts that local radio's put out, would that be correct?

Is Navtech and Navteq the same company. I have also been informed that Teleatlas is a completely different company from Navtech and the software is incompatible. I do know that Pioneer software is incompatible with the E-class COMAND

Regards,
John

 

[prprandall51]

From what I have seen of all the different hold-ups and delays they look very similar to the alerts that local radio's put out, would that be correct?
John

Yes, ITIS merged with Metro Networks a while back - Metro was the market leader in radio traffic bulletins. ITIS also collect flow data from "probe" vehicles.

(I believe) ITIS use the incident-based data to create flow data by consulting an historical database to quantify the likely impact on traffic flow of a particular incident to calculate flow data that dynamic route guidance can use (e.g. If we have two lanes out on the M25 how long a delay does that typically cause to traffic at this time in the morning and what delay should be expected on the other carriageway while everyone slows to have a look?).
The flow data is broadcast on the traffic Message Channel (TMC) and used by nav systems.

Is Navtech and Navteq the same company. I have also been informed that Teleatlas is a completely different company from Navtech and the software is incompatible. I do know that Pioneer software is incompatible with the E-class COMAND
John

Navtech changed its name a while back to Navteq. Navteq and TeleAtlas are arch rivals! I used to work for TeleAtlas.

Both comapanies only produce map data - no navigation software at all. You can get data disks from both companies for a number of navigation units - but not (currently) the E class (only Navteq). However, I am guessing that the next nav disk (with TMC) will be from TeleAtlas (from what I have read on these forums). I think the confusion arises for the fact that the map data disks often - but not always - contain an update of the navigation software itself, leading to the impression that the nav software also comes from Navteq. However, this is simply an efficient distribution method on behalf of the navigation software writers - no point in creating two DVDs when the updated software will fit on the same disk as the updated map data.

Regards,

Philip

 

[glojo]

Navtech changed its name a while back to Navteq. Navteq and TeleAtlas are arch rivals! I used to work for TeleAtlas.

Hi again Philip,
First off thanks again for the very interesting information. As you are no doubt aware I and others have been in correspondance with Mercedes-Benz UK over this issue. I was surprised to see that the M-class and Viano systems use TeleAtlas, but other models use NavTech. Confusion might reign supreme, but I suppose they do not perhaps want to put all their eggs in one basket?

Thanks again,
John