UK road deaths hit 'record low'

[wemorgan]

Some good news:

BBC NEWS | UK | UK road deaths hit 'record low'

Road Casualties in Great Britain: Main Results: 2008

 

[LimitedSlip]

Reduced injuries and deaths are always good news.

The government and others commandeering it to endorse their speed limits, cameras & bumps philosophy will be less enjoyable...

 

[Roger Jones]

Yes, good news, but how much of it is attributable to better secondary safety measures and devices in the vehicles involved? And I wonder what the collision -- as distinct from death and injury -- statistics are.

 

[verytalldave]

I would say that at least a degree of improvement is down to the fact that people are generally driving less AND those that are still driving are driving more economically (ie -slower).
The spin-off is a reduction in RTA's.

 

[kwakdonut]

I would say that at least a degree of improvement is down to the fact that people are generally driving less AND those that are still driving are driving more economically (ie -slower).
The spin-off is a reduction in RTA's.

But statistically, it is driver error that causes the majority of accidents etc NOT speed.

I think there has been many lengthy debates on the Speed vs Deaths/Injuries subject but I certainly believe that speed is not the major cause.

Remember it's not the high speed that kills, it's the sudden stop!

 

[st4]

I would say that at least a degree of improvement is down to the fact that people are generally driving less AND those that are still driving are driving more economically (ie -slower).
The spin-off is a reduction in RTA's.

The government would have you believe that. Since last year I haven't observed people cutting their speed at all.

What really is the crux of the matter is car design has moved on and as each year passes less and less people are in older less safe cars. You might argue that some of the road improvements (to surface and whole road improvements) have reduced this.

 

[verytalldave]

But statistically, it is driver error that causes the majority of accidents etc NOT speed.

I think there has been many lengthy debates on the Speed vs Deaths/Injuries subject but I certainly believe that speed is not the major cause.

Remember it's not the high speed that kills, it's the sudden stop!

BUT..............

Driver error happens quicker at higher speeds.
If you are going slower then maybe you will have time to correct the "error" and not have that accident you would have had if you were going faster.

Of course speed is a factor in accidents. Since when did anyone have an accident that was their fault when parked up in their drive?

 

[verytalldave]

The government would have you believe that. Since last year I haven't observed people cutting their speed at all.

What really is the crux of the matter is car design has moved on and as each year passes less and less people are in older less safe cars. You might argue that some of the road improvements (to surface and whole road improvements) have reduced this.

Fair point...........but dont you think people drive accordingly to their cars design limit?
If you were driving an older car like an Austin Allegro without ABS or traction control or airbags etc...etc...., then you would drive slower than if you were in a modern car with all the current safety gizmos?
I suspect the "accident probability" figure would be similar between the two.

 

[st4]

Fair point...........but dont you think people drive accordingly to their cars design limit?
If you were driving an older car like an Austin Allegro without ABS or traction control or airbags etc...etc...., then you would drive slower than if you were in a modern car with all the current safety gizmos?
I suspect the "accident probability" figure would be similar between the two.

But speeds that Mr Average does haven't increased to the extent that mr Averages in car safety has moved on.

Take my trip down the M6 to ollies in May this year, motorway speeds were approx 70mph give take. My uncle used to drive down that road to see relatives in Dorset at the same speeds 30 years ago, my old man 15years ago @ the same speeds taking us on family holidays. I drove round to see my Nan on Sunday, a journey I recall 20 years back, and it took the same length of time and speeds I drove at were similar to the ones drove by my parents and late Grand father athough the car I have has moved on immensely.

Speeds on roads have been about the same for 20 years. Motorway speeds haven't changed, A road speeds are pretty much the same and the same applies to B roads.

I take the point about ABS but at the sametime I try not to drive my car to the extent that ESP, ABS is needed. I'd probably drive a 123 Merc @ the same speeds as I drive my 211 as my aim with both these cars is to stay on the road, not put SRS airbags and crumple zones to the test.

 

[verytalldave]

Point taken but 30/15 years ago there were significantly less cars on the road. I read somewhere that the number of cars 30 years ago was about half what it is now.
That has to have an effect on statistics and safety.

 

[Chattonmill]

Two funerals in two weeks in the local town, both for teenagers in RTA's, speed definitely does kill. Inexperience and peer pressure certainly factors as well, perhaps the driving age should be reviewed?

 

[verytalldave]

As last weeks Top Gear episode clearly demonstrated, insurance premiums for the younger driver (specially male) is a good way to limit/control driver activity below 21 years of age.
However, my own personal view is that ALL driving licences should have a minimum age of 18

 

[st4]

Point taken but 30/15 years ago there were significantly less cars on the road. I read somewhere that the number of cars 30 years ago was about half what it is now.
That has to have an effect on statistics and safety.

Ah yes, so for there to be less accidents now we must be doing well. I do think now with more traffic on the roads, more complex junctions and busier motorways that accidents are more likely, but as you say below its usually young males coming a cropper. And where does this happen, on the more twisty demanindring roads

As last weeks Top Gear episode clearly demonstrated, insurance premiums for the younger driver (specially male) is a good way to limit/control driver activity below 21 years of age.
However, my own personal view is that ALL driving licences should have a minimum age of 18

I think that is coming into play, you can learn when you are 17 but cannot take the test until 18.

There are two approaches, one is to have driving engrained into youngsters @ a very early age and even making it something that is tought in school like PE, History or whatever kids do in school these days. This would have the effect of making driving much less exciting etc so when they do learn to drive on the roads, its not a key to freedom but like another exam passed.

The other, and probably the more favoured system is to raise the age of driving upto 21 and make the test much harder, the thinking being someone had matured a fair bit more by 21 than @ 17-18.

 

[The Boss]

Steve/*** - you last point, i think you are 100000% right and so much so, you should start a national petition on it! lol

its could make all the difference..

 

[st4]

Steve/*** - you last point, i think you are 100000% right and so much so, you should start a national petition on it! lol

its could make all the difference..

One slight problem - a lot of people affected vote. There are a significant number of 18-21yr olds in UK PLC who'd vote to keep themselves, get themselves into wheels. I doubt, near an election, that a would be government, want to alienate a band of people so quickly.

Of course they could dress it up in vein as an attempt to reduce carbon this and emissions that

I'll start it now then

 

[st4]

Mr Boss

Already be done

Petition to: raise the legal driving age to 19. | Number10.gov.uk

Add your name, not one of the more popular ones.

 

[flango]

Two funerals in two weeks in the local town, both for teenagers in RTA's, speed definitely does kill. Inexperience and peer pressure certainly factors as well, perhaps the driving age should be reviewed?

Speed does not kill alone, inexperience and lack of training is the killer and I agree peer pressure has a bearing on this also but parents also have the responsibility to teach and educate their children in safety.

I agree the driving age should be reviewed and it should be LOWERED 15 in my opinion same as some US states, lets start the driver education early whilst their minds are open and the safety message can go in. 17 is too late most are in realtionships, drinking and have other things on their minds.

In the US example teenage deaths have dropped dramatically with the introduction of this, there are also curfews where after a certain time of night no other teenager is allowed in the car with them, in some states this even applies in daylight hours too one teenager per car if they are the driver, not sure I'd go as draconian as this but its certainly food for thought?

 

[flango]

Mr Boss

Already be done

Petition to: raise the legal driving age to 19. | Number10.gov.uk

Add your name, not one of the more popular ones.

The most stupid idea I have ever heard, take a look at USA & Australia if you want to reduce teenage deaths in cars, lower the legal age not increase it Education is the Key not legislation