Visiting the Nürburgring

[mw_C32]

Just been to the Ring two weeks ago and had one of the best weekends I can ever remember.

I took my C63 round and just went for it, although not the quickest time in the world I felt I had gone as quick as I could without being too stupid. I managed 3 laps and the best was 8 min 58 secs.

Stopped off at Spa on the way back too.

Thouroughly recommended just for the experience.....

Nordschleifenbilder.de - 2009-05-16/IMG 9786 E

Mark....

 

[chad5k1]

RSR did a very nice track walk as well when I was there last year. That was probably more interesting than driving my own car. I'd recommend that; Dale from RSR was an excellent guide, he seemed to have a scary knowledge of the ring!

RSR are very good, I've also done the ring walk with Ron and he is top notch, worth just for the history.

Went with the GRRC and RMA last novemeber. I'd recommend it, better than a open day too.
Drive within your limits, you will think you know the track after a bit - YOU DON'T!!!!!!! That is also when people get into trouble.
Chap wrote off his vanquish on the second lap of the day, we arrived about 30 seconds after it happened. He had an instructor in the car, but ignored his instructions!

Took the Maser - no abs, no traction control, spikey turbo power, wet track - very very scary, but it dried up a bit in the afternoon and was fantastic!!

Have fun, approach it like you are driving on an unfamiliar country road and be careful, but do do it!

 

[flango]

I'm surprised they don't sell a fixed-price insurance per lap or per day for those that need it!

You can get the insurance but its not cheap

 

[A-AvantGarde]

You can get the insurance but its not cheap

Any pointers where to look so I could gauge roughly how much I may be looking at?

 

[flango]

Any pointers where to look so I could gauge roughly how much I may be looking at?

Will sort you out some companies and let you know but roughly you are looking at €250 -€300 per day

Arrmco at the ring is expensive and they charge you for every minute its closed if the accident is your fault.

I'll be honest drive within your limits and the insurance is a waste of money

Think our next visit is likely to be 12th - 14th September.

If there is enough interest we could have a club outing? Quite happy to offer my services for free and I'm sure my nephew would make another so that would be 2 instructors to keep the party safe

Maybe worth a thoought? Alternatively if anyone wants to join us on our next trip they are most welcome.

 

[corned]

I'm going out on the 18th until the 21st, which is a shame - on a couple of levels - because there is a big Renault World Series event on that weekend, so I suppose it will be fairly busy - both on the surrounding roads and on the loop.

If anyone else is going to be around on that weekend, then we can hook up if poss. I've got the 7-seater, so if anyone fancies the 'fastest man backwards' award...

Perhaps that should be 'fastest man backwards whilst still until full control'.

By the way, I phoned my insurance company for advice yesterday, re cover for going round the track. The result was inconclusive. They specifically exclude speed events by name - racing, speed trials, track days, timed events - but no mention of non-competitive charabanc trips. The research continues...

I have already elected to extend my insurance to cover the whole of Europe fully comp. Most insurance companies (mine included) automatically provide European cover to the minimum statutory requirements for whichever territory you are in. Basically that means 3rd party only. For £16 I now have fully comp wherever I go! This may be worth checking out if anyone goes on to the continent - track day or not.

 

[mw_C32]

My insurance is Euro wide however it does say quite clearly on ther front page....use on the Nurburgring Nordschleife is not covered.

but I knew that before I went.

M.

 

[TheJoker]

You're not racing, time trialling etc, when you're on Touristenfahrten. However, they can exclude the Nürburgring Nordschleife by name as they can't exclude "one-way de-restricted toll-roads".
Now, here's where the debate starts; The general concensus states that insurance companies cannot exclude statutory 3rd party cover on their terms. Funnily nobody wants to take this to court to test how it flies.
Register at any of the many Nürburgring forums (Ben's most likely) and search for it and/or ask about it (prepare to get a lot of answers about using the search function).

Skinny; If your documents don't exclude it by name you're covered.

But do not try to use your cover! It's much easier to drive within your limits than getting your car towed off the track, then back to UK, not to mention the tedious explanations to the marshalls and Der Polizei.

 

[corned]

I have being doing some preparatory work (well a bit of online studying!) in advance of going over there.

I am a little worried about how busy the whole area is going to be. It is the Renault World Series event that weekend.

For those who know the area, I guess I will be approaching on the A258 - from the west-ish. Which approach would you suggest? Is there one which would avoid the main traffic heading for the race circuit? And do you think the Nordschleife would be busier or quieter because of this event?

I also note that there is another track entry point, at Breidsheid. Am I perhaps wiser to head there instead? But I also note that there doesn't appear to be an exit, so do you only get half a lap from there?

Finally, from the perspective of the history of the place, am I right in thinking that the original track is no longer entirely navigable? In particular the original southern loop appears to have been cut off following the circuit revisions in more recent times. I know from old photos and footage that the original turn 1 was a left-hander (the South Curve?) which went round the back of what is now the Dunlop hairpin area before going back north to join the rest of the loop. I note from Google Earth that you can still see this loop, but there appears to be no way to get onto it, and certainly not as part of the main lap. Seems a real shame that this was lost...

Sorry for all the questions.

One more - can anyone tell me where on the circuit Nikki Lauda came to grief in '76?

Thanks in advance.

 

[James Rothwell]

As someone mentioned earlier Dale (think his surname is Lomas) is a brilliant guy and really knows the track and how to handle a car.

 

[TheJoker]

For those who know the area, I guess I will be approaching on the A258 - from the west-ish. Which approach would you suggest? Is there one which would avoid the main traffic heading for the race circuit? And do you think the Nordschleife would be busier or quieter because of this event?

Unless you approach just when the events start/finish you should be fine. Can get a bit slow, but should flow fairly well.

I also note that there is another track entry point, at Breidsheid. Am I perhaps wiser to head there instead? But I also note that there doesn't appear to be an exit, so do you only get half a lap from there?

There's very very limited car parking at Breidsheid. You can get on and off there though. However, if the track happens to close you're better to not be there (in a car, very good for bikes).
You can buy 1.5 lap tickets in the cafe where the gate is. You can also exit the Nordschleife there, and you don't have to go through the barriers to get back on track. But car parking is extremely limited, don't bank on this.
Easiest is probably to forget about Breidscheid apart from spectating and/or eating.

Finally, from the perspective of the history of the place, am I right in thinking that the original track is no longer entirely navigable? In particular the original southern loop appears to have been cut off following the circuit revisions in more recent times. I know from old photos and footage that the original turn 1 was a left-hander (the South Curve?) which went round the back of what is now the Dunlop hairpin area before going back north to join the rest of the loop. I note from Google Earth that you can still see this loop, but there appears to be no way to get onto it, and certainly not as part of the main lap. Seems a real shame that this was lost...

The Original layout consisted of a Südschleife and Nordschleife, combined at th pits. What is now the GP Strecke (where the F1 cars go on really flat surfaces) largely where the Start und Ziel was. I.e old pits are where the pits are today. Largely. Part of the Südschleife was turned into roads, parts of it were demolished when making way for the GP Strecke, part of it exists and is overgrown. Sign of the times.
Nordschleife is still largely unchanged.

Sorry for all the questions.

Not at all, one has to ask to know.

One more - can anyone tell me where on the circuit Nikki Lauda came to grief in '76?

Niki Lauda's Ferrari broke a wishbone (if memory serves well) at the left hand kink before Bergwerk. This corner is now known as Grillkurve or Barbeque bend.
You'll recognise it by going over the Breidscheid bridge, then turn right up at Ex-Mühle (steepest section of the track, enjoy bikes wheelying past). When over the crest, you'll see the left hander where the wishbone broke. The car turned into a fireball and stopped in Bergwerk which is the following gorgeous right hander before the 3 mile uphill climb of Kesselchen.

Enjoy!

 

[corned]

Nice one, Joker - many thanks!

I suppose the best time to get there/get round/get out is actually while the RWS meeting is in full swing - say between 10am and 3pm?

The info re Lauda sounds about right - I have looked again on GE and that area matches my recollection of the footage of the accident - like this? I am pleased to see that no one on GE has captioned this area Barbeque Bend - what a terrible name!

Thanks again for the info!

 

[TheJoker]

Nice one, Joker - many thanks!

My pleasure!

I suppose the best time to get there/get round/get out is actually while the RWS meeting is in full swing - say between 10am and 3pm?

I don't think that you'll gain anything by trying to schedule your arrival based on other events; except for that you want to stay away from the exact time when everybody is leaving. The traffic is usually confined to the 258 around the GP Strecke, and there only.
The track usually opens at 08:00 and from that you can get out to a nice spot and spectate. Or simply go rambling around the track, stop and admire the fast ones, then keep walking.

The info re Lauda sounds about right - I have looked again on GE and that area matches my recollection of the footage of the accident - like this? I am pleased to see that no one on GE has captioned this area Barbeque Bend - what a terrible name!

That's the one!
It's a terrible name, but I think it correctly represents the dangers of the circuit. About one year ago my friend came around said bend and found a 911, stationary, in the middle of the track leaking all its fluids, after a pin-ball-style bounce between the armco. On a motorbike crossing fluids quickly turns any carbon into a diamond should it be lodged up your... erhm... you get the picture.

Enjoy your trip, and do ask questions. :bannana:

 

[mb240]

I'd recommend getting a mountain bike out as well - there is a great track that follows the ring through the surrounding forests. It's quite nice and gives some spectacular viewpoints away from the usual spots (e.g., the one at the apex of Karusell).

 

[TheJoker]

I'd recommend getting a mountain bike out as well - there is a great track that follows the ring through the surrounding forests. It's quite nice and gives some spectacular viewpoints away from the usual spots (e.g., the one at the apex of Karusell).

Indeed, visit the nature around the area, it's spectacular. Choose your transport; feet, pushbike, quad, enduro, etc...

 

[corned]

We survived!

Got there at about 10am and got into the car park just as they closed it. The officials put a barrier across the road behind the car after us. Lucky break! The circuit was closed for half an hour according to a tannoy message. At least this meant that the queue in the car park was limited. Once the circuit re-opened, we were straight on.

I felt a little conspicious waiting in line with the usual Scooby/Porsche/turbo-nutter Golf/etc pilots in a huge automatic E class estate, 4-up, and completely green. However I saw no one laughing, so credit where it's due! In fact, the front of the car seemed to attract quite a lot of attention, which unnerved me a bit until I realised they were looking at the laser gate opening device 'hidden' in the front valance.

We did 2 laps, which was enough for a taste without adding to the risk, or ruining a good set of tyres, and it was thoroughly enjoyable. The speed at which some cars came past us was breathtaking. I have to say that I found it easy to go as fast as I dared whilst keeping the mirrors well checked, and keeping over to the right unless I could see empty track behind me. My missus did a sterling job with the phone-camcorder, and the kids loved being thrown around in the back. Yes, I did take them, and yes they were equally enthusiastic as me.

We saw two incidents: one when we came past the breakdown lorry which was on its way to a Golf buried in the armco some while later on the lap, and the second was a Dutch CLK which came past us on a right-hander and immediately scrubbed wide off into the kitty litter and grazed the armco, losing his rear light unit and some paint too no doubt.

On the way there, a complete **** in a British 53-plate black M3 BMW did his best to kill himself, us, the occupants of the car in front of us, and the occupants of the oncoming car which he only just avoided. It would not have surprised me if he was the reason the circuit was closed for that half hour. He will certainly not be long in removing himself from the gene pool. But who will he take with him?

The area was very busy, as I expected, due to the Renault World Series event on the new circuit.

So - an ambition which I can now tick off my 'to do' list.

 

[TheJoker]

Very glad you enjoyed it! If you want to go again, but don't want to put the stress on your own car, you can, as (probably) mentioned, rent a car. Another option is to take the picnic gear/camping gear and find a spot next to the track and have a barbeque and admire the cars.

We went over in the beginning of the month in my girlfriends 1.2 Clio. I managed one lap in the wet - Schwedenkreutz at 90mph in the wet in that car is scary (normally 130-150mph on the bikes). We wanted to do one lap with her driving and I wanted to do a lap in the dry too. But it was too busy/silly so we headed home instead.

Glad you enjoyed it and are back safe!

 

[KillerHERTZ]

I know its not the same, but ive recently bought a PS2 with GT4 and ive been having a go around the Ring - only once have I made it round without crashing into anything

Not sure I would want to try it for real unless id had some proper training...

 

[Setanta]

Glad you enjoyed it - I thought they banned filming on it though?

Took the CL out on it last month - to be honest, I was bored out of my mind and would not bother doing it again (I would go in the Ring Taxi though). Yes, the car has a lot to do with it but tracks are not really my thing in any event.

What was much more enjoyable (for me anyways) was the autobahns. There are far more areas that are unlimited than I was led to believe and while there is traffic, the discipline was very good.

We covered a lot of ground very very quickly and every once in a while, I will look at the in-car footage and just grin.

Someone had set the limiter at 120mph (!) so cue much cursing and flipping through the manual to get rid of that little annoyance.

There is just 'something' about coming around a bend, the destricted signs displayed and a loooooooooong straight bit of road as far as you can see with no traffic (thank you Mr Sunday Morning), then burying the accelerator and keeping it there as the bridges go past faster and faster.

 

[corned]

I have to admit that I didn't see any signs warning of filming, but on the Burgstube Hotel website which I studied prior to going, it did say that filming would earn a ban, although I took it to mean that the driver should not be filming. I guess it happens...

I will interrogate my phone later and see if I can post a couple of piccies, and if I'm really daring I may post the film - you can all then tell me where I am going wrong!!! I was a bit disappointed to see that there were no piccies of us on the nordschleifenbilder website.

Once I have studied the film with a map (so I can work out what is where) Iwill let you know what I thought were the best/worst bits of the circuit. There was one memorable part where you drop into a dip and then immediately compress as you shoot up the other side into a left-hander - very interesting! That horrible chicane on a crest (should know its name, but again I'll let you know later) came up rather suddenly on the first go, but was OK on the second.

I could go on, but I'll stop. You know what they say - there's nothing worse than a convert.