W124 1991 500E Suspension

[paddy@polyposta]

Paddy

Clearly alot of work done on the car.

Before splashing out further dollars and given the symptoms you describe, i'd run one test, if you haven't already.

Fit a set of stock MB 16" or 17" 1-piece wheels and tyres and see if that carries the same issue. In many instances, such symptoms can arise due to wheels not being 'true' and when dealing with multi-piece wheels like the Brab ones on yours, the issue can be magnified. What balancing weights are there on the front wheels...if there are alot adding up to over 30g, then the wheel maybe warped/untrue.

I don't see that this issue is related to ride height. The tyre wear is likely a result of bad camber/castor alignment. My black 500E is lowered more than yours and doesn't have the tyre wear issues that many think must occur with low ride height.

You can raise your car without changing the springs, simply fit thicker spring pads, they come in 1 nib to 4 nib on the w124. 3 nib might be the best bet if you want to carry some margin, although 2 nib pads will raise the car materially. I think the car looks nicely poised, and changing ride height is unlikely to resolve the issue.

A couple of items that can make a substantial difference :

- rear torque arms
- roll bar bushes (front and rear)


But my first suggestion would be to drive the car with simple stock wheels. I have a set that i know are true, if you wish to borrow, you are welcome anytime.


cheers
talbir

Talbir? The E500 you sold to jaymanek, did you fit the brabus springs to that?

How much did they cost you if so?

Paddy

 

[talbir]

Talbir? The E500 you sold to jaymanek, did you fit the brabus springs to that?

How much did they cost you if so?

Paddy

Yep, i fitted the Brab springs on Jay's car...the same price, 490 Euros. Very good price IMO, although ex rate was a mighty 1.25 euros to the squid back then.....

cheers
talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Yep, i fitted the Brab springs on Jay's car...the same price, 490 Euros. Very good price IMO, although ex rate was a mighty 1.25 euros to the squid back then.....

cheers
talbir

Indeed, pretty crap at the moment so will end up costing me around £467.00 and are they worth the money at the end of the day or can another make for half the price be as good? What you running H & R?

Paddy

 

[talbir]

Indeed, pretty crap at the moment so will end up costing me around £467.00 and are they worth the money at the end of the day or can another make for half the price be as good? What you running H & R?

Paddy

I'm running H&R on my black 500E...i'd struggle to say what's better, but H&R can be had mcuh cheaper.

The Brabus springs weren't actually made by Brabus, probably made by Sachs or someone. They are quality stuff, the only reason i fitted them though was to keep the Brabus theme going...there is so much genuine Brabus equipment on that silver E.

cheers
t

 

[paddy@polyposta]

I'm running H&R on my black 500E...i'd struggle to say what's better, but H&R can be had mcuh cheaper.

The Brabus springs weren't actually made by Brabus, probably made by Sachs or someone. They are quality stuff, the only reason i fitted them though was to keep the Brabus theme going...there is so much genuine Brabus equipment on that silver E.

cheers
t

Yes and how did you come by it all? Would like to do the same to mine over the next few months!

I will look into springs H&R and sachs.....recommended web sites?

Paddy

 

[talbir]

Yes and how did you come by it all? Would like to do the same to mine over the next few months!

I will look into springs H&R and sachs.....recommended web sites?

Paddy

German ebay and....German ebay !

To the silver 500E, i fitted the Brabus Monoblock IIIs, Brabus pedal set (4 piece), Brabus steering wheel, Brabus footmats (all 4), Brabus Tempomat (features oil temp and outside temp reading !), Brabus rear box, Brabus springs and Brabus bootmat.

All found on German ebay !

cheers
talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

German ebay and....German ebay !

To the silver 500E, i fitted the Brabus Monoblock IIIs, Brabus pedal set (4 piece), Brabus steering wheel, Brabus footmats (all 4), Brabus Tempomat (features oil temp and outside temp reading !), Brabus rear box, Brabus springs and Brabus bootmat.

All found on German ebay !

cheers
talbir

How did you handle the german language?

 

[mattc]

kein Problem....you will find most Germans speak/write pretty good english. just email them..if you have real problems PM and I will write for you if you want?

 

[paddy@polyposta]

My Headlamp Lenses

Can anyone tell me what the correct MB Part Number is for UK Spec Headlamp Lenses for 1990 W124 500E?

Local MB will not give me that information

Paddy

 

[Dieselman]

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...722.365370&CT=F&cat=44S&SID=82&SGR=195&SGN=06

 

[talbir]

Can anyone tell me what the correct MB Part Number is for UK Spec Headlamp Lenses for 1990 W124 500E?

Local MB will not give me that information

Paddy

Diesleman's given the info above, but the Parts dept should simply look up left hand drive lenses for left side traffic, for 500E.

It is vital not to use lenses from a non 500E w124, even though physical fitment is the same.


talbir

 

[Dieselman]

It is vital not to use lenses from a non 500E w124, even though physical fitment is the same.

I didn't know that, thanks.
Any idea what the difference actually is.?

 

[talbir]

I didn't know that, thanks.
Any idea what the difference actually is.?

The lense pattern is different on the section of glass next to the grille...that's where the fog lamps are on a stock non-500E w124, but on the 500E, that is the main beam lamp. The fog lamps are moved to the bumper.


talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Results from the Steering Geometry/Camber tests

Ummm.......

Well I did take some of that advice and had the following work done recently by Auto Elite in Hull!..........http://www.autoelitehull.co.uk/index.html

RECENT WORK

1. Renewed Steering Damper
2. Renewed Steering Idler Bush
3. Renewed Ball Joint off side
4. Renewed 2 x Track Rod Ends
5. Flushed out and replaced SLS Fluid
6. Flushed out and replaced Brake Fluid
7. Inspected Engine Mounts - OK
8. Inspected Rear Strutt Rubber - OK
9. Inspect Wiring Harness - OK
10. Inspect Water Pump/Radiator/Thermostat - OK
11. Fitted new pair of front clear indicators genuine merc
12. Fitted new pair UK spec headlamp lenses - (Has just faild MOT this weekend on these!!)
13. Fitted Clear Side Repeaters
14. All four alloys refurbushed and painted in 199 to match body work leaving polished rims
15. Drivers electric seat fixed as not all functions working correctly
16. Inspected front suspension/springs/dampers. Car has been lowered as low as it can go and has no option now to be raised. Would need new springs to raise ride height! Car sits almost dragster like
17. Parrot Hands Free Kit installed

RESULTS FROM THIS WORK

The serious wheel wobble problem that the car had developed has almost completely gone, but you can still feel a slight wobble in the wheel...although she does drive a lot better

Auto Elite then advised that I change both front tyres.......so fitted a pair of Vredestein Sessanta's

RESULTS FROM CHANGING FRONT TYRES

Again a bit more of an improvement, but still feel a slight wobble

Auto Elite then advised I also change both rears......so fitted some more Vredestein Sessanta's 265/35/18

RESULTS FROM CHANGING REAR TYRES

Much more grip, but still have slight wheel wobble

I think the next stage then would be to change the set up of the suspension itself, take the front up a bit and see how we go.

When I first bought the car, the front tyres had severe wear on the insides of the tyres and the back had wear also on the insides but not s bad as the fronts.

If I decided to change the dampers and springs....what would be the best set up to go?

I have found a set of Brabus Springs W124 500E/E500 new for 490 Euros?

Is that a good price and would these be ideal?

Paddy

THE RESULTS FROM STEERING GEOMETRY/WHEEL ALIGNMENT

Would appreciatte some advice on these figures, this test was done before I fitted new tyres all round!

Paddy

 

[Uberwagon]

I can't remember the figures for the front but your rear camber figures are worse than mine and mine were just over the limit. I haven't done enough miles to see if the rear tyres wear more (not that it bothers me) though.

Dave!

 

[bolide]

I agree with Talbir - you should test the car on standard wheels. I suspect the problem is a wheel out of true and that the effect is exacerbated by the low ride height & non-standard wheel diameter

I would not expect changing the springs to solve the problem. But if you do change the springs, and you're planning to raise the ride height, the subsequent change in ride height & consequent geometry change may reduce the effect

Bear in mind that the spring rate affects everything. If you buy an AMG spring, a Brabus spring and an MB spring they are likely to be different lengths and spring rates. I estimate the spring is about 40% compressed at the normal static ride height so both the spring length and the rate determine the ride height

Ignoring longevity issues, accuracy of manufacture & etc, a spring is a spring is a spring. It doesn't matter who makes it - what matters is the rate and the length

When you have it fitted what matters then is that the damper can damp it over its whole travel

Finally you can tune the ride height with the spring pads

Everything in suspension systems is inter-related so make changes with extreme care

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[paddy@polyposta]

HeadLamps Lenses Query

The lense pattern is different on the section of glass next to the grille...that's where the fog lamps are on a stock non-500E w124, but on the 500E, that is the main beam lamp. The fog lamps are moved to the bumper.


talbir

OK so heres the thing, I have a 1991 500E which has facelift E500 Bonnet. Does this mean that the full headlamps units will have been changed? Do the headlamp units differ from the 500E - E500?

Paddy

 

[talbir]

OK so heres the thing, I have a 1991 500E which has facelift E500 Bonnet. Does this mean that the full headlamps units will have been changed? Do the headlamp units differ from the 500E - E500?

Paddy

No, the only item that changes on the headlamp during facelift is the lense itself....the lense is curved to match the bonnet lines. The headlamp unit is identical between pre and post facelift cars.

The under-headlamp trims also change, as again they are lined to match the bonnet as well.

Atached pictures show difference between pre and post facelift lenses....they also highlight the difference in lense pattern over the H3 bulb....due to the 500E not having fog lamps there, but the main beam. The 500E application is virtually clear in that section, whereas the stock w124 version is heavily patterned (2nd picture). The car with the facelift lenses (which is a stock w124 lense) hasn't updated the grille etc.

regards
talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

No, the only item that changes on the headlamp during facelift is the lense itself....the lense is curved to match the bonnet lines. The headlamp unit is identical between pre and post facelift cars.

The under-headlamp trims also change, as again they are lined to match the bonnet as well.

Atached pictures show difference between pre and post facelift lenses....they also highlight the difference in lense pattern over the H3 bulb....due to the 500E not having fog lamps there, but the main beam. The 500E application is virtually clear in that section, whereas the stock w124 version is heavily patterned (2nd picture). The car with the facelift lenses (which is a stock w124 lense) hasn't updated the grille etc.

regards
talbir

Right, gonna email this link to my garage as he assures me that the units will have had to be changed

Paddy

 

[talbir]

Right, gonna email this link to my garage as he assures me that the units will have had to be changed

Paddy

Paddy, in post 29 you show a pic of your car....it already has the facelift lenses. Yes, they are not the UK version, but the only difference between the UK lense and the lense on your headlight at the moment is the pattern on the glass. That has nothing to do with the physical fitment.

So not sure why tech feels anything needs to change.

BE careful with removal of old lense....the plastic clip tabs can snap if prised up too far.....they only need to be lifted ever so slightly to allow the lense to move free. If he snaps those clips you will need a new unit !


talbir

talbir