W124 1991 500E Suspension

[talbir]

Nice work Paddy !

You'll like those springs, plus they look the cats knackers.

For matching colour, Spax do good shocks, even adjustables.

Motorsportworld.co.uk is good for sourcing....remember, w124 500E front shocks are identical to w201, w124 and r129 shocks with regards to physical fitment (except w124 4-matic). So if you find 190E Cossie shocks they are good, they are Sachs Supersport versiosn, perfect for a lowered set-up.

Worth renewing the spring pads, available from MB for a few squidders each. I'd go for 1 nib all round, the new springs will take time to settle in and lower to their height.


cheers
talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Nice work Paddy !

You'll like those springs, plus they look the cats knackers.

For matching colour, Spax do good shocks, even adjustables.

Motorsportworld.co.uk is good for sourcing....remember, w124 500E front shocks are identical to w201, w124 and r129 shocks with regards to physical fitment (except w124 4-matic). So if you find 190E Cossie shocks they are good, they are Sachs Supersport versiosn, perfect for a lowered set-up.

Worth renewing the spring pads, available from MB for a few squidders each. I'd go for 1 nib all round, the new springs will take time to settle in and lower to their height.


cheers
talbir

Thanks talbir, I shall take a look and see whats available. The set up definately needs sorting. I fitted new tyres all round about a month and a half back. When I have been out on the road touching 80/90mph and get home, there is a smell of burnt rubber from the rear tyres and they are hot just on the inside of the tyre on both sides, almost like they are just running on that part of the tyre!!

You advise is much appreciatted

Paddy

 

[talbir]

I'd suggest that after the new springs are fitted, do a full wheel alignment of front and rear, and see how it performs after the changes and adjustments.

Have you changed the rear torque arms ?

May as well whilst you're there if not already done.

ta
t

 

[paddy@polyposta]

I'd suggest that after the new springs are fitted, do a full wheel alignment of front and rear, and see how it performs after the changes and adjustments.

Have you changed the rear torque arms ?

May as well whilst you're there if not already done.

ta
t

Have not changed rear torque arms no! Probably will though. Even though I have just spend 1500 quid. Next lot of work will be:

New Strut Mounts
New Shocks
New Shock Bumps Stops
New Brabus Springs (Purchased!!)
Any work which may be necessary to rear wheel adjustment, torque arms etc
New Front Uprated Discs (Possibly EBC, unless I can get hold of Brabus or Porche)
New Front Calipers - EBC/Brabus/Porche
First Gear Start Module (Purchased - Will not be fitted until engine idle switch is fixed ((expensive job)))
Brabus Rear Box - When I can locate one!!

Then I need to stop spending and enjoy for a while until the next lot of work

Paddy

 

[bolide]

Please bear in mind what the damper is meant to do - damp the oscillation of part of the car's mass on top of a big spring

The spring rate & free length should be matched to the car's mass, front / back weight ratio, required ride height & fundamental frequency. The damper is there to damp that particular mass over the travel determined by the spring & bump stop. You won't know what the best damper is unless you know the spring rate, fully-compressed length and fully-extended length for each corner

I'd be more inclined to choose dampers by specific performance criteria than colour

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[talbir]

I'd be more inclined to choose dampers by specific performance criteria than colour

The damper i suggested, Spax, is a performance type, geared for use with lowering springs, plus they are adjustable. The fact the colour is the same as the yellow Brabus springs was meant as an incidental detail, not a guide.


talbir

 

[talbir]

New Front Uprated Discs (Possibly EBC, unless I can get hold of Brabus or Porche)
New Front Calipers - EBC/Brabus/Porche

Paddy

Paddy, if you can find an SL600 in a breaker yard, you can nick the front and rear brake set-up...it's a direct bolt-on to the 500E (since the 500E has the 129's suspension and brake system).

Larger discs and matched calipers....will do wonders for the braking. I have these on my black 500E. Good used set from a breakers will cost 1/10th of new performance/Brabus/Porsche set-up.

cheers
talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Paddy, if you can find an SL600 in a breaker yard, you can nick the front and rear brake set-up...it's a direct bolt-on to the 500E (since the 500E has the 129's suspension and brake system).

Larger discs and matched calipers....will do wonders for the braking. I have these on my black 500E. Good used set from a breakers will cost 1/10th of new performance/Brabus/Porsche set-up.

cheers
talbir

Talbir, are you refering to an older SL600, 90-95 or the latest model?

Paddy

 

[bolide]

The damper i suggested, Spax, is a performance type, geared for use with lowering springs, plus they are adjustable. The fact the colour is the same as the yellow Brabus springs was meant as an incidental detail, not a guide

Yes, I know, I was being sarcastic

If I had a 500E this is what I'd do: first I'd have the corner weights measured with half a tank of fuel and me in the driver's seat. Then I'd measure the ride height at four specific & repeatable places on the car

Next I'd pop down to Leda (see later post) with a pair of scrap W124 front shocks, the new springs & the car, take one of the engineers for a spin and give them a written brief of what I wanted to achieve. They could measure the motion ratio, the wheel position @ full droop and at the existing ride height. They could also measure the spring rate of the new springs

Assuming that gave them enough data, they could then work out the suspension rates front & rear, the likely ride height (so you could work out what spring pads to choose), and choose a suitable damping specification

Leda will make dampers fixed, 2- or 4-way adjustable so you could choose what you want. They will be more expensive than a standard damper but you know it will work well, be adjustable and rebuildable. They'd build them using the scrap front shockers you used as donors

I'd do this rather than guess what dampers might work

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[kth286]

Nick

I have never seen this side of you.

As I am always interested in chassis matters, and for credibility, what is your background knowledge/experience in this subject.

 

[bolide]

As I am always interested in chassis matters, and for credibility, what is your background knowledge/experience in this subject.

Years of modified cars and about 5 years of racing & doing a lot of my own race car prep

I think cars should handle well. Unlike big engines, sticky tyres & tricky diffs, the benefits of good handling can be felt at any speed and in all situations

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[talbir]

Going to such huge lengths is not really neccesary for road use - if you're fine tuning suspension for the track, absolutely understable. But really, this is a 500E, already a good base. Once lowered, you only need to fit adjustable shocks for fine tuning. That's the point of adjustable, you adjust the damping to correlate it with the spring.

I am sure it would be cheaper to source the entire E60 AMG kit, springs + shocks + struts, knowing AMG have done all the required calculations. The kit can be purchased for circa £1,200 from Japan. (excludes the ARB).


talbir

 

[kth286]

I think cars should handle well. Unlike big engines, sticky tyres & tricky diffs, the benefits of good handling can be felt at any speed and in all situations

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

For people that enjoy their driving agreed - a balanced chassis "sweetly" set up is the number one obvious differentiator between an enjoyable car to drive through the twisties, and a pig of a car badly set up.

The best chassis will win over power everytime, as the more powerful car is likely to be soon in the ditch, and it is bl..dy hard work driving a poorly set up car quickly, compared to the small driver inputs required to drive a nicely balanced car.

 

[bolide]

Going to such huge lengths is not really neccesary for road use - if you're fine tuning suspension for the track, absolutely understable. But really, this is a 500E, already a good base. Once lowered, you only need to fit adjustable shocks for fine tuning. That's the point of adjustable, you adjust the damping to correlate it with the spring.

I am sure it would be cheaper to source the entire E60 AMG kit, springs + shocks + struts, knowing AMG have done all the required calculations. The kit can be purchased for circa £1,200 from Japan. (excludes the ARB)

I agree completely. Absolutely the best result will come from following the example set by people who have the resources to research & test suspension properly. I'd say AMG would produce an excellent setup

One alternative I forgot to mention was to buy the Brabus front dampers that match the springs already purchased

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[bolide]

Quick update: Leda have a new website at www.leda.com and there is a full list of products

Adjustable dampers are £165 each and struts with stub axles (Ford Escort Mk I, etc) are £425. The W124 leg just has mounting bolts at the bottom so I'd expect the price to be somewhere between the two

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Uberwagon]

Since mine was properly set up on No1 spring cups, new standard dampers and a full alignment done with weighted seats, as Merc reccomends, Understeer is a thing of the past and the mid corner stability is perfect, neutral to slight oversteer when going silly.

Paddy, could you measure the height of the bumpers above the floor, it doesn't seem much lower than mine at the minute and i'm unsure if it's just a trick of the alloys on your being larger. I'll try and measure mine when back.

Dave!

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Since mine was properly set up on No1 spring cups, new standard dampers and a full alignment done with weighted seats, as Merc reccomends, Understeer is a thing of the past and the mid corner stability is perfect, neutral to slight oversteer when going silly.

Paddy, could you measure the height of the bumpers above the floor, it doesn't seem much lower than mine at the minute and i'm unsure if it's just a trick of the alloys on your being larger. I'll try and measure mine when back.

Dave!

OK will do

Paddy

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Just on another note

Would any one happen to know what the original Brabus Part Number was for the Rear Box on a W124 500E?

124 680 ?

Paddy

 

[Dieselman]

I fitted new tyres all round about a month and a half back. When I have been out on the road touching 80/90mph and get home, there is a smell of burnt rubber from the rear tyres and they are hot just on the inside of the tyre on both sides, almost like they are just running on that part of the tyre!!

You advise is much appreciatted

Excessive camber caused by lowering causing the tyre to run on the inner tread only.

I've used your geometry check as reference.





Blue touch paper...

 

[paddy@polyposta]

QUOTE]
Excessive camber caused by lowering causing the tyre to run on the inner tread only.




Blue touch paper...

Yeah thats what I think to, but if you see a pic of the car, its more dragster like set up and I do not think has been lowered that much at the rear. Lowered too much on the front I say for certain, which could be upsetting the rear also. I have a New set of Brabus Springs on their way to me anyway, so shall start making some adjustments and see how we go.

Will the Brabus sprimgs work well with the stock shocks? Probably not, I have to see the condition of all these parts when I next inspect to carry out extra work

Paddy