W204 - Standard Audio 20 Speakers Upgrade

[st13phil]

My W204 has the standard Audio 20 system and the sound is adequate rather than good, so I want to explore audio upgrade options. I'm not minded to go down the full component system route, but can anyone recommend a good ICE installer who's worth talking with about an upgrade to the standard speakers?

 

[wychwoods]

Phil, did you find some better speakers for your W204?

I've complained to my dealer about the missing mid-range and they have at least offered to test it against another Audio 20 installation. Big question is which CD I should take for the test - will have to do some careful listening to select a suitable track.

Cheers,
Frank

 

[st13phil]

Sorry, no, I haven't made any progress on this whatsoever. I haven't been able to find anyone who is doing a range of "direct replacement" speakers yet, and I've been too idle to seek out an ICE dealer who can help

If you have any luck in your enquiries I'd appreciate any info.

 

[wychwoods]

On the trail of the missing mid-range...

I've complained to my dealer about the missing mid-range and they have at least offered to test it against another Audio 20 installation. Big question is which CD I should take for the test - will have to do some careful listening to select a suitable track.

Since my last post, I've done some detective work using standard test recordings thinking it would be the best way to compare my car with the dealer's specimen. I couldn't be sure a music CD would do the job.

The http://audiocheck.net/ website provides excellent tracks to test all aspects of an audio system including the loudspeaker phasing. Sure you all know, but this is a check that a pair of stereo speakers both blow or suck at the same time! If one blows while the other sucks, the resulting sound, well, sucks! There are test tracks with left and right correctly in phase and then the same sounds but left and right are out of phase.

Playing these tests gave a poor sound with the in-phase test, but a great sound with the out-of-phase test. Ergo: my speakers are wired out-of-phase. At least, that is my conclusion so far, but I'll have to demonstrate it to the dealer. In theory, the solution is just to switch the wires on one of the speakers.

There are other useful test tracks at http://audiocheck.net/. One with pure left and the other with pure right. If I rack the Bal/Fad all the way to the opposite side from the test sound, you can still hear the sound very clearly in the footwell speakers so that suggests the wiring is reversed as well as out of phase!


Hope to visit my dealer this weekend and have them experience the tests. Will let you know the outcome.

I strongly recommend you check out audiocheck site. Well produced and explained.

Cheers, I hope,
Frank

 

[Diesel Benz]

Hope to visit my dealer this weekend and have them experience the tests. Will let you know the outcome.

I strongly recommend you check out audiocheck site. Well produced and explained.

Cheers, I hope,
Frank

Interesting link, but did you analyse their data to be in-phase when they claim the test signal is out-of-phase? It is pretty difficult to see how they could have connected your speakers out-of-phase if the car is as from the factory. Never know though, but I doubt this test signal would be sufficient for an average MB shop to start working with the car.

 

[wychwoods]

D'oh!

Playing these tests gave a poor sound with the in-phase test, but a great sound with the out-of-phase test. Ergo: my speakers are wired out-of-phase. At least, that is my conclusion so far...

Am I confused ??? or crazy ???

I found another test track which is easier to trust. Originally from TDK and using clear speech to identify in-phase and out-of-phase segments, plus a description of what you should expect to hear (centred and solid image or diffuse). Surprisingly (to me anyway) the out-of-phase segment actually sounds louder, but it definitely has the expected diffuse character.

Conclusion: speakers are actually in-phase! This is a shame really, because it makes it much harder to get a fix for the poor audio quality that I first noticed.

So now, my plan is to ask the dealer to check the system. It is a new vehicle - and I have not returned the satisfaction survey yet - so perhaps I have some leverage...

The saga continues

-Frank

 

[blugosi]

Have you tried the parametric equaliser of the Audio 20? You can get to it from the Engineering Menu (Ignition at position 1, turn on head unit, press red phone + 1 + # simultaneously for 5 seconds).

You can adjust each individual speaker to your liking...

In any case, I will be replacing my speakers sometime next week and I will report on the outcome...
However, I fear that with better loudspeakers the existing amplifier will not be adequate, but I have no clue how to change the W204's amplifier because I don't know where it is! I suppose it is connected with the MOST connector, so I am not too optimistic...

 

[GuyFawkes]

Am I confused ??? or crazy ???

I found another test track which is easier to trust. Originally from TDK and using clear speech to identify in-phase and out-of-phase segments, plus a description of what you should expect to hear (centred and solid image or diffuse). Surprisingly (to me anyway) the out-of-phase segment actually sounds louder, but it definitely has the expected diffuse character.

Conclusion: speakers are actually in-phase! This is a shame really, because it makes it much harder to get a fix for the poor audio quality that I first noticed.

So now, my plan is to ask the dealer to check the system. It is a new vehicle - and I have not returned the satisfaction survey yet - so perhaps I have some leverage...

The saga continues

-Frank

phase is easy.........

get anything and produce a constant tone, looped.... doesn't even need to be stereo, mono is fine.

set balance to mid and volume to "I can hear the tone clearly"

if in phase physically moving from left to right you move through a clear sound space with no point sources.

if out of phase one speaker dominates, then you move another inch and the other speaker dominates....

HTH etc

 

[wychwoods]

Wow!!!!

Have you tried the parametric equaliser of the Audio 20? You can get to it from the Engineering Menu (Ignition at position 1, turn on head unit, press red phone + 1 + # simultaneously for 5 seconds).

You can adjust each individual speaker to your liking...

In any case, I will be replacing my speakers sometime next week and I will report on the outcome...
However, I fear that with better loudspeakers the existing amplifier will not be adequate, but I have no clue how to change the W204's amplifier because I don't know where it is! I suppose it is connected with the MOST connector, so I am not too optimistic...

Hi blugosi - you've said several things which stopped me in my tracks - thank you!!

The story so far: I thought my speaker phasing was wrong, but managed to try the same test tracks on another W204 with same results. Dealer said he would ask workshop to send me the full specs of the Audio 20 - still waiting, but it was only a few days ago.

With more reflection on hearing my CD collection, I think the problem is that the bass and treble controls don't make much difference to the output (unlike my old W203).

Now to blugosi...
#1 - I had no idea there was an engineering menu, so thank you for telling us. A quick look showed an amazing range of controls for several items I could not fathom, as well as radio, phone, bluetooth, etc...

#2 - What the heck is MOST??? Several controls refer to it.

#3 - A relevant set of controls are in the Sound section where there is parametric equalisation and filtering control. I'm not sure what does what, so I left well alone, but it did look like there were controls to change the turnover points of tone adjustments as well as the degree of change. I live in hope that herein lies the answer to my woes. :bannana:


Can anyone explain the settings in the Sound menu?

What about more info on the options available throughout the engineering menu? Is there anything seriously dangerous that we should not change?

Thanks again blugosi.

-Frank

 

[st13phil]

#1 - I had no idea there was an engineering menu, so thank you for telling us.

Ditto...

Can anyone explain the settings in the Sound menu?

A trawl with google has turned up this forum thread :bannana:
Unfortunately, my german isn't up to translating it, but google's language tool comes up with enough of a translation to get the gist of what it's all about

What about more info on the options available throughout the engineering menu? Is there anything seriously dangerous that we should not change?

Probably

 

[st13phil]

Further googling also turned up this post on the MBWorld forum:

BE VERY CAREFUL IN THE ENGINEERING MODE! If you make adjustments in the Parametric EQ- you cannot manually restore the factory settings.
Example: Filter 2 factory setting was at 2300. When you adjust it- the values are in intervals of 500 (2000, 2500, 3000). You are unable to select 2300.
I recommend that unless you know what you are doing-DON'T MESS AROUND!

So who's going to be the one to try it out, then?

 

[wychwoods]

Ditto...A trawl with google has turned up this forum thread :bannana:
Unfortunately, my german isn't up to translating it, but google's language tool comes up with enough of a translation to get the gist of what it's all about Probably

Have you tried the full page translation on google?

Kong says "In comparison with the audio 20 from my older MOPF W203 sports coupe and T-model, I find the sound very "flat" and unpleasant "hard".
Also no real deep bass, and more will only recruit more resonance.
What suck 2 LCD displays, remote controls on the steering wheel and center tunnel, bluetooth etc on a model release if the sound is not right?
Maybe I'm the only one with these remarks, but if not, they have tips for improvement?" Sounds like he/she has exactly the same problem!


If you persevere with the translation of the 3 pages of the German forum, you will find suggested filter settings:

"... here my proposal for the settings.
This corresponds roughly to the default setting for "pop music" with equalizers.
60 Hz; gain +5; Grade 1
600 Hz; gain -5; grade 0.5
1000 Hz; gain -2.5; grade 2
13000 Hz; gain +7; grade 0.5"
​

Not sure I'm ready to be brave and try this yet....

-Frank

 

[wychwoods]

Helpful discussion on MBWorld

There's a whole discussion forum on MBWorld for the the W204 Engineering Menu (how sad is that....?)

Apologies if I have broken the rules by mentioning another forum as being useful On reading some postings on MBWorld, it makes you appreciate this one!

-Frank