W210 E320 CDI - Cold Start Problems - Is it those injectors again

[Ashley]

My big silver bus is struggling to start from cold. It turns but sounds like there's no fuel getting to the engine. The only thing that makes it fire is a spray of Bradex Easy Start. I had a couple of injectors go a year a go at 110k miles and this seems indicative of that problem again. I'll get it hooked up to STAR to tell me which one is the offender and replace it. But I have a couple of questions for those that know:

1) - What is "excess bleed off" The problem that STAR reports for the injectors - i.e. if the injector is letting air in to allow the fuel to drop back down the line is it also letting fuel out when the engine is running? What actually fails on the injector?

2) Why when the injectors are playing up does the car cut out when it has low fuel. Yesterday I started from cold with the Bradex spray and then drove off normally with a gallon in the tank to the fuel station. I accelerated hard up a hill and the engine cut. Engine wouldn't fire without the Bradex... got going with a spray and then it cut out again just before the fuel station and I got it going in the same way. After filling up the tank and getting a jump start because of my now flat battery, I drove around for 20 mins to charge the battery and no matter how hard I accelerate up a hill I couldn't repeat the problem. When the injectors are working fine I regularly go down to a couple of miles showing on the range and the engine doesn't cut out. Why would the engine be more sensitive to "fuel starvation" when the injectors are playing up.

3) Why do the injectors only effect the starting from cold? If the car has been driven around and then left for a couple of hours it fires up fine.

4) My battery has been checked as being "fine". Is it normal to only get 3 or possibly 4 attempts at starting the engine before the battery dies on a cold morning?

5) The injector problems have both happened shortly after the annual service... is there anything that happened in the service that could be a catalyst or is this just coincidence.

 

[Druk]

The injector problems have both happened shortly after the annual service... is there anything that happened in the service that could be a catalyst or is this just coincidence

Was the fuel filter changed at the service? Sounds like it might be an airleak at one of the pipes.

 

[Ashley]

Yes it was... and this was I thought last time it happened. Went back to my indi in Reading and they replaced a couple of the lines and O rings that looked like thet might be causing some issues but STAR came up with "excess bleed off" on injectors 3 and 5. After replacement car ran fine. Now it's happening again a year down the line. I have no other symtoms apart from the starting issue. No loss of power under hard acceleration or problems with idle etc

 

[proser]

I had this starting issue a couple of weeks back. I knew is must be the injectors as everything else (lines and seals) have been replaced.
It was exactly the same as you describe: bad starter in the morning (about 4-5 goes on the started) but fine for the rest of the day after that.
Replaced them all last week, as I knew they were the originals and must be due a change at 198k. Been fine since, even in this cold weather.

 

[lynall]

Excess bleed of is one or more of the injectors is leaking to much fuel on the return side which stops the full rail pressure being acheived.

Bloke at work had similiar on his bmw and although messy he just removed the return pipes and had a look to see which one/s were leaking the worst.



Lynall

 

[ohlord]

bradex easy start is like heroin to a junkie,dont use that ****!!!

 

[Ashley]

Thanks guys... I'll try removing and looking at the return pipes to see if this helps me identify the culprit so I can do a DIY fix. sorry for the delayed response... xmas prep etc.

I've just put a new battery in and it has demonstrated the old one was clearly not holding a charge properly. At least I get a fair few goes at trying to start it. I'll try

So does anyone reckon it's worth the hassle of changing the injector myself (i.e. is it likely that can I buy a recon and remove old and fit the new without breaking rest of engine without sepcialist tools) or does £148 for new part fitted at my indi sound like good value?

Thanks for the advice...I'll see if I can get my car to go 'cold turkey' on the Bradex!

 

[proser]

Does the £148 include a fully recon injector ? If it does then I would go for it with the indie.
As long as there has been no seal leakage and carbon build up around the injector, then you should be able to get the injector out with basic tools and no damage.
I managed to get my injectors for £85 inc VAT each, but then that was all 6 in one go, from a bosch injector specialist in Manchester. Elsewhere I was being quoted more than the £148 just for an injector.

HTH

Mark

 

[skemball]

If you have not yet got round to looking at the injectors it might be worth removing the EGR solenoid and checking that the valve isn't stuck open and i had poor starting in cold weather recently until i cleaned mine, now its back to starting on the button.

 

[Ashley]

Does the £148 include a fully recon injector ? If it does then I would go for it with the indie.
As long as there has been no seal leakage and carbon build up around the injector, then you should be able to get the injector out with basic tools and no damage.
I managed to get my injectors for £85 inc VAT each, but then that was all 6 in one go, from a bosch injector specialist in Manchester. Elsewhere I was being quoted more than the £148 just for an injector.

HTH

Mark

Sorry about the delay... The £148 is inclusive of a new part (that's what they tell me) and the 2 previously fitted look pretty shiny and new to me.

 

[Ashley]

If you have not yet got round to looking at the injectors it might be worth removing the EGR solenoid and checking that the valve isn't stuck open and i had poor starting in cold weather recently until i cleaned mine, now its back to starting on the button.

Thanks I'll check this out.

 

[jbl]

Did you sort this out Ashley?

I think I may have the same problem with my W210.

What was the outcome??

Cheers

Johnny (Oxford UK)

 

[Ashley]

Hi Johnny, strangely it ended up being a leak on the return fuel lines (at the T junction just behind the fan)... where it was leaking overnight and causing the car to 'suck' air when it cranked. Had the lot replaced and it's nearly back to normal. I am still convinced that there is excess bleed off on one of the injectors but not enough to show up as a fault on the STAR system. Why?... because I have a steep driveway and when I park the car overnight facing downhill it fires on the first turn of the crank and when it faces uphill overnight it only fires right at the end of the starting cycle (or start of second start cycle), leading me to think the injector is allowing the fuel to drain back causing loss of starting pressure. This is exactly what happened when I had 2 injectors show the fault last year prior to being replaced. I appreciate Reading is a little way away from you but I can recommend Star Motors there as a really competent indi. I now live in Swindon and still use them as they live and breath W210's. Would be interested to hear the outcome.

 

[BlackC55]

Leak off will NEVER show on Star. You have to manually test them.

 

[bennesspipers]

bradex easy start is like heroin to a junkie,dont use that ****!!!

I agree, had experience of 'Easy Start' 30 years ago, engines get hooked on it, & then dont want to start without it.

 

[jbl]

gutted

thurned out to be a leak from the body of the high pressure pump.

Had the plastic pipes changed, and O rings, no better, then they found a diesel leak from the high pressure pump.

Total bill £904.00

Thats it for me an Mercs, that was a bill from my local independent merc specialist - and along the way they advised I need wishbone bushes replacing, and anti roll bar links - which together will be about another £300-400.

On top of that my daughter seems to have jumped on the passenger seat a bit hard and the SRS light on the dash is now permanently on. Probably another £200 to sort.

Its going. I cant handle bills like that out of the blue.

 

[adilyusaf]

i had a same problem with my e220 cdi....rough idle in the morning when the car has a cold start...it was a sendor installed at the end of a fuel line bar on top of engine..it is on the other end towards the dashboard. i did'nt even changed it...the mechanic just hammered the sensor with ranch in his hand, just to show me the sensor and it started working...... unbelievable but it happend....since than its ben two months...no issues.

 

[malthom]

I had a starting problem same as yours,worse in cold weather.I had all the o rings changed in the fuel lines to the cost of £130,at a specialist,MERC TECH Swansea,now its as good as new

 

[englishdas]

As I found to my dismay, it is the most frustrating car I've owned, as posted by me constantly over the last few years.

My SRS light came on just by hoovering the interior vigorously. The good thing was I'd spent so much at my specialist having stuff replaced or rebuilt, they reset the SRS for free.

It is a good car for getting to build up a relationship with a mechanic.

And the problem is when it comes to replacing it, do you go up or down? A w211 has really to be newer than an 07, due to early model issues, ie more expensive than a yearly £1000 garage bill.

And going down, its a W124. There's loads out there, but I found I had to compromise on the engine to get a good model, unless you pay post-07 w211 money for a concourse 124.

Maybe the money you spent on yours has given it new life for a year. Just get friendly with the mechanic. Live with the SRS light on, and if he's a nice bloke, the next time it goes in for a big service, he might just reset it for the sake of it. The SRS seat sensor only controls the belt pretensioner I am informed. The belts would still work as a normal car, and the airbags will still be triggered, heaven forbid you get in a tangle.

Best of luck. I was gonna jump to a Volvo v70, but you just can't love em can you. The merc even on its bad days is like having an affair your missus is sort of ok with.