Wheels In Motion

[Stratman]

I had a visit to Wheels In Motion today, to sort out the famous pulling to the left.

After Joe had put it on the lift and hooked up the rather amazing measurement and alignment centre, it showed everything was in the green and within MB's specifications. This is perfectly normal and part of the reason they pull. As is much better explained on the WIM website, because of British road camber the castor angles need to be offset.

Joe installed the famous adjustable bolts, worked his magic with the machine, took it for a test drive and pronounced it much better.

The drive home included town and country roads plus motorway so was a good test. It is certainly better, no doubt about that, but is still somewhat reactive to road camber but to a lesser degree. Joe explained the Mercedes suspension angles make it sensitive to tyre type and tread wear. He recommended swapping the fronts side to side to see if it improves further. He also cautioned that new tyres (which will be needed sooner rather than later) may change things a bit again. Given that the bolts have fixed adjustment positions rather than being infinitely tweakable, the improvement is as good as it's possible to achieve.

So is it one hundred percent cured? No, I'd say there's about an eighty percent improvement but it is far more relaxing to drive and without doubt worth it.

A big thank you to Joe and the rest of the lads, who were happy for me to watch the process and ask questions. They are friendly and efficient and I'd not hesitate in recommending them.

 

[Stratman]

Just a quick update. I swapped the front wheels over today and it made up the extra twenty percent :bannana:

It now tracks straight and true, so a big thumbs up to WIM

 

[JRH30]

WIM did my sl55 and transformed it. Well worth the trip!!

 

[CLK320-55]

Hello all,
Could you tell me where wim are based so I can take my CLK320 to them to adjust my near side front wheel as I think it is running out at present wearing the out side of tyre.
I have had it tracked but still not quite right.

Has anybody replaced their suspension springs and shocks and dropped the suspension down - is it worth the effort?

 

[Charles Morgan]

Chesham in Bucks.

 

[neilcharlton]

Another + 1 for WIM .
Sorted out my CLK ..

 

[zoros]

This whole issue stinks to be honest. Firstly we are to believe that one of the biggest car manufacturers out there, simply doesn't recognise this problem exists. That's the first 'stink'. Does anyone honestly believe that someone as upstanding and responsible as MB would ever stand by and allow their products to be maligned in this way? [Because it is a FACT that this "issue" doesn't exist with any other car manufacturer - for sure].
Secondly - we are led to believe that seemingly only ONE commercial operator in the whole of the UK can repair said "issue"? Stink.
Thirdly - that this operator has not collaborated with Mercedes to assist in sharing their solution so that MB can undo this "issue" (which MB don't recognise anyway). Stink.
Finally - that this operator will not share their solution with anyone else - meaning that wherever you are in the UK -if you believe in this phenomena and wish to avail yourself of this 'solution', you have to drive to Chesham. Stinks.

What is MB's official response to all these products of theirs pulling to the left in the UK and to the right in the EU?????

And do these cars that pull to the left in the UK, drive straight on un cambered roads, I wonder? Or are there no uncambered roads in the UK, other than the middle lanes of motorways and runways during track days?

MB's response is deafening by its absence - and there tells a story.

 

[renault12ts]

You are so wrong...WIM shared with us on this very forum what the problem is and how to correct it.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Finally - that this operator will not share their solution with anyone else - meaning that wherever you are in the UK -if you believe in this phenomena and wish to avail yourself of this 'solution', you have to drive to Chesham. Stinks.

There are plenty of other threads and posts from Wheels in Motion, but they share a fair amount on this thread:

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/whee...n/98176-definative-explination-pull-left.html

HTH

 

[DJM]

What does it cost to get this work done and will it affect warranties??? I have a new E63 and even though MB had a look at it they are certain it's a characteristic of the vehicle. They said that I've basically got a sports car which is bound to feel different to any other car I've owned before... Hmmmm???

 

[Stratman]

Joe at WIM explained to me clearly why the problem exists (basically MB set up their suspension angles symmetrically) and why it doesn't manifest itself in other makes (they effectively build in the adjustments made by WIM to MBs). It's all to do with road camber, in the UK our roads are more cambered than sur le continong.

It's more apparent on MBs because of their increased castor angle, which is what makes the front wheels look tilted over on full lock.

 

[b1g1an]

This whole issue stinks to be honest. Firstly we are to believe that one of the biggest car manufacturers out there, simply doesn't recognise this problem exists. That's the first 'stink'. Does anyone honestly believe that someone as upstanding and responsible as MB would ever stand by and allow their products to be maligned in this way? [Because it is a FACT that this "issue" doesn't exist with any other car manufacturer - for sure].
Secondly - we are led to believe that seemingly only ONE commercial operator in the whole of the UK can repair said "issue"? Stink.
Thirdly - that this operator has not collaborated with Mercedes to assist in sharing their solution so that MB can undo this "issue" (which MB don't recognise anyway). Stink.
Finally - that this operator will not share their solution with anyone else - meaning that wherever you are in the UK -if you believe in this phenomena and wish to avail yourself of this 'solution', you have to drive to Chesham. Stinks.

What is MB's official response to all these products of theirs pulling to the left in the UK and to the right in the EU?????

And do these cars that pull to the left in the UK, drive straight on un cambered roads, I wonder? Or are there no uncambered roads in the UK, other than the middle lanes of motorways and runways during track days?

MB's response is deafening by its absence - and there tells a story.

Hope you've read all the info in this thread and now appreciate there isn't a problem that anyone has to answer to.

MBs do not 'pull' they just follow cambers and if that is how MB want to set them up that's entirely their choice. The only question is whether you like it like that or not, if not WIM and others can lessen the effect or otherwise sell up and move on.

 

[markmifsud]

I thought WIM used Camber bolts, as supplied by MB to adjust this? I wasnt aware there is some big secret. Certainly not from WIM as they often describe exactly what the issue is.

 

[brucemillar]

It's not just WIM (who are fantastic). My Local Tyre place on fitting new front tyres on my AMG asked if I wanted the Mercedes set up or did I want it doing properly ;ˆ). He also explained Merc's follow camber in standard set up. He set it up his way. It's great.

 

[Dryce]

There's no secret. Just a lack of recognition of 'the problem' because it's considered to be normal and that 'they all do that' .

I had my W211 sorted by the dealer.

 

[st13phil]

This whole issue stinks to be honest. Firstly we are to believe that one of the biggest car manufacturers out there, simply doesn't recognise this problem exists. That's the first 'stink'.

This has all been explained to you and to others on this forum before, but you don't want to accept the explanation. I'll have one last try...

Does anyone honestly believe that someone as upstanding and responsible as MB would ever stand by and allow their products to be maligned in this way? [Because it is a FACT that this "issue" doesn't exist with any other car manufacturer - for sure].

Mercedes-Benz cars do not pull to one side on a level, uncambered road. Mercedes' manufacturing tolerance on their suspension is actually tighter than many other manufacturers, and the cars leave the factory with all settings essentially perfectly mirrored across the car. However, MB design their suspension to have more castor angle than most other manufacturers use which means that their vehicles are more sensitive to road camber which they will follow. What you have to understand is that all motor vehicle suspension design is a series of compromises, with different designers making different trade-offs. Mercedes choose to prioritise certain aims over others, and that means they run (relatively speaking) lost of castor angle. Regardless of this, the fact remains that all four-wheel (and two-wheel) will follow the road camber to a greater or lesser extent if the suspension is set up symmetrical. It's called physics.

Secondly - we are led to believe that seemingly only ONE commercial operator in the whole of the UK can repair said "issue"? Stink.

Complete fallacy. WIM have explained, publicly on this forum and elsewhere, how they address the adjustment of MB suspension to "counter" the road camber effect. They stagger the Castor Angle, by using off-the-shelf, genuine Mercedes-Benz parts.

Thirdly - that this operator has not collaborated with Mercedes to assist in sharing their solution so that MB can undo this "issue" (which MB don't recognise anyway). Stink.

See above.

Finally - that this operator will not share their solution with anyone else - meaning that wherever you are in the UK -if you believe in this phenomena and wish to avail yourself of this 'solution', you have to drive to Chesham. Stinks.

See above.

What is MB's official response to all these products of theirs pulling to the left in the UK and to the right in the EU?????

MB will sell you the adjustable Castor bolts if you want them. Any competent workshop with suspension geometry measurement equipment and an understanding of what they are doing can fit them.

And do these cars that pull to the left in the UK, drive straight on un cambered roads, I wonder?

Yes, they do track straight on a flat road. They will even follow the road camber and drift to the right if you drive on the right-hand side of the road.

As b1g1an said in a post above, MB's do not "pull', they just follow cambers and if that is how MB want to set them up that's entirely their choice. The only question is whether you like it like that or not. If you don't you have been given all the information you need to have your car set up differently so that the suspension forces balance out the road camber forces in normal use when driving on the left of a typical UK cambered road. If you don't want to do that then sell up and move on.

 

[GordonTarling]

My son recently bought a Toyota Auris - guess what his first and only complaint was? Yep, it pulls to the left! So, it's not just MB's that do it.

 

[zoros]

That's what I have got then - a sensitive MB. Because three main tyre franchises and two main dealers have all checked my steering geometry and can't find anything wrong with it -static. Take it for a run and voila - it's "sensitive" to camber.
This is my 'nth' car and NO previous vehicle has behaved like this. The guy next door down drives a 13 plate C63 and his pulls to the left. WTF???
I have to say - it just adds to my increasing impatience with the car overall. A beautiful car in its day but very few if any MB's remain stylish after a few years, they seem to age quite quickly. Apart from the gull wings, pullmans and the pagoda versions very few appear to capture the imagination. Spoilt perhaps by my old Maser.
Thanks ST13Phil for your patience!

 

[renault12ts]

That's what I have got then - a sensitive MB. Because three main tyre franchises and two main dealers have all checked my steering geometry and can't find anything wrong with it -static. Take it for a run and voila - it's "sensitive" to camber.
This is my 'nth' car and NO previous vehicle has behaved like this. The guy next door down drives a 13 plate C63 and his pulls to the left. WTF???
I have to say - it just adds to my increasing impatience with the car overall. A beautiful car in its day but very few if any MB's remain stylish after a few years, they seem to age quite quickly. Apart from the gull wings, pullmans and the pagoda versions very few appear to capture the imagination. Spoilt perhaps by my old Maser.
Thanks ST13Phil for your patience!

I'm guessing you ignored all the posts between your two posts? Especially those that tell you it can be "fixed".

 

[WDB124066]

If you are having no clear result from splitting the castor angles then look to additionally split the camber angles, more -ve on the left than the right, by the permitted tolerance. Try to achieve this by taking out -ve camber on the right so that it sits towards or at the minimum permitted value rather than adding more -ve to the left.