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winter or all weather tyres

You will find that with winter tyres there are some limitations as to readily available sizes and in particular to speed rating. Be aware that quite often a winter tyre suitable for your car will be down rated from V to H say and may be of slightly narrower cross section ( might require a narrower rear wheel in the sports models) but if you consult your MB owners handbook this is deemed acceptable practice and should not invalidate your insurance policy.
 
looks like the snotracs are for the smaller wheels.
Still look good and good value for money as well; think I will be buying a set soon.
 
Having experienced a Bavarian Winter (down to -25), Winter tyres perform miles better in such circumstances - and are a little-known trick for track days - but in the UK, where it rarely gets below 5°C a bit of a waste...

For the snow, narrower tyres can also be a benefit.
 
but in the UK, where it rarely gets below 5°C a bit of a waste...

They are parts of the UK where it rarely gets above 5C for 3 months during the winter, not sure how warm Doncaster really is? Do you wear shorts and t shirts all year round? :eek:

Russ
 
I've been driving for over 30 years in the South of England and have never used (or felt I needed) winter tyres. I've certainly driven my SL at -8C on normal tyres without any issues at all ... clearly I didn't need the small amount of extra grip that a softer compound would have given. You need to remember that even at warmer temperatures grip varies quite widely between brand/model of tyre. Wet roads are pretty commonplace, but we happily accept that some 'summer' tyres are much better than others in the damp.

Winter tyres are a massive improvement on snow, but we hardly ever get any of that down here. Ice is a much bigger issue, but only studded tyres will make a difference there.
 
I've been driving for over 30 years in the South of England and have never used (or felt I needed) winter tyres.


With all due respect, and I'm not getting into a slanging match here, but the above statement automatically disqualifies you from commenting on winter tyres if you have no experience of them. The proper term is "cold weather tyres" nowadays and they work better in ALL conditions below 7C, that includes shorter braking distances on wet roads etc etc, they are not designed solely for snow or ice, but ALL road condition below 7C. If you never experience such temperatures in the South of England, that is fine for you but do not underestimate how much extra grip they have for others in colder parts of the UK. That is my experience of them and my final word on this thread.

Russ
 
Gets plenty cold down here, ive just bought a second set of wheels and am now on the hunt for some suitable tyres.

At least a couple of times every year you cannot get up the hill i live on even though the rest of maidstone is snow/ice free and has been for a week or so.

Maybe even a softer ride bliss:D



Lynall
 
I've been driving for over 30 years in the South of England and have never used (or felt I needed) winter tyres. I've certainly driven my SL at -8C on normal tyres without any issues at all ... clearly I didn't need the small amount of extra grip that a softer compound would have given. You need to remember that even at warmer temperatures grip varies quite widely between brand/model of tyre. Wet roads are pretty commonplace, but we happily accept that some 'summer' tyres are much better than others in the damp.

Winter tyres are a massive improvement on snow, but we hardly ever get any of that down here. Ice is a much bigger issue, but only studded tyres will make a difference there.

Pretty much agree with this.

I do fit winter / cold weather tyres (not going to ge too pedantic about terminology, but I refer to the ones with the snowflake symbol on) because we travel to the south of Germany in the winter months.

They are much better for the couple of days of snow we get here but I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle for those couple of days.

I suppose the counter argument is that you can only wear out one set of tyres at a time so the extra cost, esp if you can get a second set of wheels cheaply, isn't too much.

The emergency services don't seem to bother for what that's worth.
 
With all due respect, and I'm not getting into a slanging match here, but the above statement automatically disqualifies you from commenting on winter tyres if you have no experience of them. The proper term is "cold weather tyres" nowadays and they work better in ALL conditions below 7C, that includes shorter braking distances on wet roads etc etc, they are not designed solely for snow or ice, but ALL road condition below 7C. If you never experience such temperatures in the South of England, that is fine for you but do not underestimate how much extra grip they have for others in colder parts of the UK. That is my experience of them and my final word on this thread.

I'm not getting into a slanging match either :)

But ... I don't notice any loss of grip with 'normal' tyres in the typical winter conditions we have down here, and that's well below 7C for much of the time.

By that I mean my cars don't break traction when accelerating, I don't get the ABS kicking in when braking, and I haven't crashed ;)

Therefore I clearly don't need whatever slight improvement winter tyres might offer.

As has been commented, as far as I'm aware none of the emergency services, armed forces, or other large fleet operators change their vehicles to winter tyres in the South of England (or anywhere in the UK??). In these days of HSE and liability mania they surely would if there was a clearly demonstrable safety benefit.

If we regularly had snow I would definitely fit winter tyres though - as is normal practice where my in-laws live in the South of Germany.
 
But ... I don't notice any loss of grip with 'normal' tyres in the typical winter conditions we have down here, and that's well below 7C for much of the time.

By that I mean my cars don't break traction when accelerating, I don't get the ABS kicking in when braking, and I haven't crashed ;)

Therefore I clearly don't need whatever slight improvement winter tyres might offer.

Yet every so often, the South of England comes to a standstill because they get half an inch of watery snow & the rest of the country stare at the TV in disbelief at how ill prepared they all are down there for winter driving (and how rubbish they are at driving in it too!) :rolleyes:

Russ
 
As has been commented, as far as I'm aware none of the emergency services, armed forces, or other large fleet operators change their vehicles to winter tyres in the South of England (or anywhere in the UK??). In these days of HSE and liability mania they surely would if there was a clearly demonstrable safety benefit.

Can't actually agree with you on that as was amply demonstrated this winter when London literally ground to a halt for a day. :crazy:Snow worries as London grinds to halt - World - BrisbaneTimes

The Health and Safety response of many large transport organisations to inclement weather in many cases seems to be recommending the cessation of all traffic movement! :doh: As always it comes back to cost/benefit considerations and also entrenched working practices and materials.:wallbash: The fact that there aren't enough days in the South of England where temperature falls below a level sufficient to justify the purchase and fitting costs of dedicated winter tyres does not imply that they would not convey significant safety benefits and allow transport services to maintained on the days this did occur.:thumb:
Fortunately the owners of private cars are not so constrained and can chose to enhance the ability of their car to cope with cold conditions. :) Winter tyres are no miracle cure:dk: and in many cases journeys are halted by the inability of other drivers or vehicles to proceed ( the vision of a double decker bus full of passengers sliding helplessly sideways on a minor gradient after a short snowstorm just just swam into view there for a minute:rolleyes: ) but on a rear wheel drive car like a Mercedes they covey a perceptible improvement and confidence enhancing feel to the vehicles handling . It puts it a least on a par with a front wheel drive vehicle under the same circumstances. I have enjoyed their benefits for the last 15 years and would recommend them without hesitation.:cool:
 
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Have to comment on the truck tyre statments, have either of you looked at modern truck drive axle tyres?

Very deep when new just over 20mm tread depth.

Plus the physical weight of the vehicle is going to help, but to be fair i have seen trucks stuck they were empty though.

Plus we have a few army trucks in the workshop and the tyres are simply massive and the road noise ho ho also 6 wheel drive:D



Lynall
 
I've hopefully already made it clear I'm not disputing the advantage of winter tyres in snow.

But for the vast majority of drivers it's not critical that they are able to drive 365 days a year with absolutely no exceptions. So if there's occasionally a bit of snow on the ground for a day or two it's not the end of the world.

It is a bit strange that the emergency services (who arguably DO have to be able to drive no matter what the conditions) don't fit winter tyres :confused:

What I am disputing though is the stated advantage of winter tyres when it's just a bit cold out ... which is the case 99% of the time where I live.
 
What I am disputing though is the stated advantage of winter tyres when it's just a bit cold out ... which is the case 99% of the time where I live.

Michelin have a site that gives examples of braking distances at various temperatures on cold dry & wet roads as well as snow covered roads, can't find it at the moment or I'd give you the link, but in ALL conditions below 7C, the cold weather tyres stop many metres quicker than normal tyres. That is quite an advantage is it not?

http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinu...urquoi-monter-pneus-hiver/20070314172071.html

Russ
 
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Very interesting article here that not only talks of winter or cold weather tyres but also talks about tyre markings that I didnt know about.

Winter tyres

Winter tyres only have to save you from tragedy once to be a worthwhile investment

Text: Malcolm McKay / Photos: Mark Dixon
February 2008


Did you know that below 7˚C, the rubber molecules in your summer-spec tyre treads progressively harden and freeze? This means the tyre is less able to adapt to the contour of the road surface, which in turn reduces grip levels, to such an extent that when braking on a wet – not icy – road from 50mph, summer tyres will need 40 metres to stop, when winter tyres will stop in 34 metres.

It’s a big difference and it’s surprising how few people know that there is such a fall-off in performance of the tyres we normally buy, just because the weather is colder. Of course, the difference on ice and snow is even greater, as the winter tyres’ design cuts through snow and into ice to give a far greater margin of safety than on normal tyres: braking on icy roads from 20mph, summer tyres take 68 metres to stop, while winter tyres will bring you to a halt in 57 metres.

In northern or mountainous regions of Europe where locals are often required to fit winter tyres, the fact that yours is on summer tyres will make insurance companies blame you first for any accident you’re caught up in. Germany requires drivers to swap tyres with the seasons unless using ‘all-season’ tyres.

Of course, it’s wrong to look at these comparisons in isolation: there are many more influences on tyre performance. Pressure is one. Manufacturers used to recommend that winter tyres were inflated to slightly higher pressures than their summer equivalents, on the grounds that winter tyres don’t heat up as much in the cold weather, but Robin Winter (yes, really...) of Vredestein says that the advice now is to maintain normal pressures.

Tread depth also affects performance. The difference between a new tyre and one worn but just legal is even greater than the wet road comparison above.

The age of the tyres can have an even greater effect, partly because modern compounds are around 30% better in braking than they were 25 years ago, but also because age hardens tyre compounds and makes them less supple and hence less grippy. There’s increasing evidence that we really should change our tyres once they’re 10 years old, whatever their wear levels. How do you know the age of your tyres? Use the checklist below…

So why not use winter tyres all year round? The simple answer is that at higher temperatures, on wet or dry roads, they’re not as good as summer tyres: tyre technology has moved forward a long way but temperature still has a big impact on longevity and performance.

As a result, we have summer tyres, winter tyres and all-season tyres, the last a compromise for all-year-round use but not matching the ultimate performance of either winter- or summer-specific tyres.

Winter tyres use a higher proportion of natural rubber, with silica compounds to maintain flexibility in cold conditions. Michelin’s Alpin range (made in Dundee, Scotland) even use a compound containing sunflower oil for better wet grip. Winter tyres also have far more sipes for cutting through water and deeper tread than summer tyres but the side effect is that they can make the steering feel imprecise in the dry; much effort has gone into encouraging the sipes to ‘lock’ when cornering, to reduce this effect.

With current tyre fitting costs, the most cost-effective way to use winter tyres is to have two sets of wheels (usually steel for winter, since alloy corrodes so badly from road salt) and swap summer for winter in October, then back in April. About 25% of motorists on the European continent do exactly that. If you use your car all year round, the arguments for changing to winter tyres when the temperature drops below 7˚C are compelling.

How old are my tyres?

The DOT code, which is required for the American market, can tell you when the tyre was made.

If it ends with three numbers, it was made in the 1980s; if it ends with three numbers followed by a triangle, 1990s; if it’s a four-number code, 2000s.

Within the code, the first two numbers are the week of the year, followed by the year of manufacture (single-digit 1980s/’90s, two since). So, 256 is the 25th week of 1986; 256 is the 25th week of 1996, 2506 is the 25th week of 2006.

If there’s no DOT code, either the tyres were not offered on the US
market or they are over 25 years old… The two letters in the DOT code tell you the factory/country in which the tyres were made: see Tyre Manufacturer Codes.

What else can my tyres tell me?
M+S tyres are for Mud and Snow; if they also have a very chunky tread pattern, they’re primarily for off-road use, but M+S-marked tyres that are primarily on-road patterns are increasingly common. Winter tyres that are marked with a snowflake symbol have passed an industry standard braking test on snow.

All tyres sold in Europe after July 1997, unless they’re for pre-1939 cars, must be E-marked (though there is no law to prevent you fitting non E-marked tyres to your car). The code tells you the type approval certificate, the country in which it was issued (‘11’ in a circle is UK) and the European requirement it complies with.

A yellow (usually) dot on the sidewall indicates the (fractionally) lightest spot on the tyre – it’s impossible to get them absolutely 100% uniform. This should be mounted adjacent to the valve to minimise the need for balance weights. A red dot indicates the highest spot (it’s also impossible to get them absolutely 100% round). If the wheel rim has a dimple in it, that marks its lowest spot, so the two should be mounted adjacent to one another (this takes preference over the yellow dot).

Radial coloured stripes in the tread indicate a tendency for the tyre to pull slightly to one side. If the stripe is near the centre, it will have little pull. If it’s further out, try to mount that tyre opposite one that has its band to the other side, so they tend to pull/push each other. Remember, though, that some tyres are unidirectional, so cannot just be flipped round.

You may also find USA-required markings that rate the tyre for temperature (its ability to resist heat build-up), traction (grip) and tread wear. Temperature and traction are rated as A, B or C, in descending order: ideally you want to see A or B on your tyre. Tread wear is measured as a figure between 60 and 600, where 60 means the tyre will be worn out in a few thousand miles and 600 means it will last into the next millennium. Much still depends on how you drive...
 
Michelin have a site that gives examples of braking distances at various temperatures on cold dry & wet roads as well as snow covered roads, can't find it at the moment or I'd give you the link, but in ALL conditions below 7C, the cold weather tyres stop many metres quicker than normal tyres. That is quite an advantage is it not?

Why use Cold Weather tyres?

Russ

On snow the winter / cold weather tyres are clearly superior. Here in the south it doesn't snow very often. Some years not at all.

The following is a quote from the site you reference:

Braking distance on a wet road from 50mph,
at a temperature below 7°C
Summer tyre : 40 m - Cold Weather tyre : 34 m

This would carry more weight if it actually said what the temperature below 7 degrees is. If it's six then this clearly has much relevance. If it's -20 it doesn't reflect what happens in the southern part of the uk. Please bear in mind they are trying to sell something, this is not information presented in an objective way so you can make up your own mind.

Please note I am not against winter /cw tyres, I fit them every year because I need them in the Black Forest area of germany in winter.
 

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