winter or all weather tyres

[raymont]

''Germany requires drivers to swap tyres with the seasons unless using ‘all-season’ tyres''.

This is not true. I think it might be the case in some mountainous areas but it isn't generally the case.

However, lack of appropriate tyres may well be held as a contributory factor in any accident in which you are involved.

 

[Satch]

''Germany requires drivers to swap tyres with the seasons unless using ‘all-season’ tyres''.

This is not true. I think it might be the case in some mountainous areas but it isn't generally the case.

However, lack of appropriate tyres may well be held as a contributory factor in any accident in which you are involved.

There is no overarching legal requirement but if you have tyres "unsuitable" for the conditions and get stuck you can expect a fine. That may not be because of failure to fit winter tyres per se but if a vehicle cannot make "normal progress" in poor weather conditions a dim view is taken. For locals it can also get difficult in insurance terms

So in a country where the majority fit winter tyres, that is the "normal progress" standard by which you will be judged. Woe betides the ignorant Brit. slithering along on summer tyres!

 

[rf065]

Summer tyre : 40 m - Cold Weather tyre : 34 m

This would carry more weight if it actually said what the temperature below 7 degrees is. If it's six then this clearly has much relevance. If it's -20 it doesn't reflect what happens in the southern part of the uk.

The same info was on another page in more detail, if I remember correctly, the test was conducted at 5C.

Russ

 

[raymont]

There is no overarching legal requirement but if you have tyres "unsuitable" for the conditions and get stuck you can expect a fine. That may not be because of failure to fit winter tyres per se but if a vehicle cannot make "normal progress" in poor weather conditions a dim view is taken. For locals it can also get difficult in insurance terms

So in a country where the majority fit winter tyres, that is the "normal progress" standard by which you will be judged. Woe betides the ignorant Brit. slithering along on summer tyres!

Yes, pretty much what I said.

 

[raymont]

Did a bit of research. Continental tyre site has the following info comparing braking performance from 60km/h ( about 37mph) of summer and winter tyres at various temperatures:

7 degrees equal
0 degrees +3 metres
-10 degrees +7 metres
-20 degrees +12 metres.

So, the colder it gets the better the cold weather tyre performs.

Whilst it’s not shown on the site it would be interesting to see the figures extended upwards. I.e what happens when the temperature is +10 degrees. Does the cold weather tyre now perform worse than the summer tyre? I don’t know, but I suspect it does.

Given the climate in the south of UK there are plenty of days during which the temperature straddles this 7 degrees figure.

I remain open to being convinced, but it seems to me that the benefits of winter tyres in the south of the UK are at best marginal.

 

[Sp!ke]

I dont think you are taking into account that winter tyres also work much better in the rain and on less than perfect road surfaces.

Having used winter tyres last year both in the UK and in the snowy Alps, I'm convinced that they provide an increase in safety during the winter months and in poor weather.

 

[grober]

In some ways we are arguing at cross purposes here.
Hopefully the facts indicate that there is a quantifiable performance advantage in braking and traction to be gained from winter tyres in sub 7 degrees C conditions. These advantages become more apparent as the temperature drops and on surfaces affected by slush,snow and ice.

The economic arguments really come down to how many days you expect to avail yourself of this increased low temperature performance. This is governed by local weather conditions and how essential daily use of the vehicle is. This would appear to be very few days in the South of England at sea level to possibly several months in the remote uplands of Scotland. In the end ,to borrow a phrase beloved of the IFA community, the decision to buy may depend on how "risk averse" you are.

 

[rf065]

Given the climate in the south of UK there are plenty of days during which the temperature straddles this 7 degrees figure.

I remain open to being convinced, but it seems to me that the benefits of winter tyres in the south of the UK are at best marginal.

The time of day that you use the car counts for a lot also. It may reach 7C during winter up here but that is of no consequence if you leave the house at 7.30AM before the sun has come up and return home at 5.30 long after the sun has gone down. The part of the day when the temperatures rise is when the car is sitting parked.

For example, the radio has just stated that it is only 2C outside right now as I am getting ready to leave, the weather forecast for this afternoon will be 13C, but the car will be sitting idle.

Russ

 

[raymont]

The time of day that you use the car counts for a lot also. It may reach 7C during winter up here but that is of no consequence if you leave the house at 7.30AM before the sun has come up and return home at 5.30 long after the sun has gone down. The part of the day when the temperatures rise is when the car is sitting parked.

For example, the radio has just stated that it is only 2C outside right now as I am getting ready to leave, the weather forecast for this afternoon will be 13C, but the car will be sitting idle.

Russ

True. Which rather supports the notion that it's a pretty marginal call. By the way, where's 'up here'?.

 

[Smiley]

In some ways we are arguing at cross purposes here.
Hopefully the facts indicate that there is a quantifiable performance advantage in braking and traction to be gained from winter tyres in sub 7 degrees C conditions. These advantages become more apparent as the temperature drops and on surfaces affected by slush,snow and ice.

The economic arguments really come down to how many days you expect to avail yourself of this increased low temperature performance. This is governed by local weather conditions and how essential daily use of the vehicle is. This would appear to be very few days in the South of England at sea level to possibly several months in the remote uplands of Scotland. In the end ,to borrow a phrase beloved of the IFA community, the decision to buy may depend on how "risk averse" you are.

Thats about it. Like some people will squeeze out the last 0.1mm of the tread on the tyre and then go and buy the cheapest Lingalongs they can find - others will call it a day at 3mm and get another set of Michelins. I guess it is much more lilkely that the second type of person will have a set of winter tyres completely independent of where they live in the UK.
From my perspective the extra cost is very marginal apart from buying a spare set of wheels on ebay - only one set is being worn at a time - so I am going to buy a set of Vredesteins and bung them on the car mid November and take them off sometime in March.

 

[BTB 500]

Did a bit of research. Continental tyre site has the following info comparing braking performance from 60km/h ( about 37mph) of summer and winter tyres at various temperatures:

7 degrees equal
0 degrees +3 metres
-10 degrees +7 metres
-20 degrees +12 metres

Would be interesting to see what the actual stopping distances were ... i.e. what percentage improvement that 3 metre difference at 0C represents.

I'd be willing to bet that testing different makes/brands of summer tyre alongside each other at 7C (or whatever) would yield similar differences in stopping distance, depending on how hard/soft the compound and the tread pattern/depth.

 

[wemorgan]

Would be interesting to see what the actual stopping distances were ... i.e. what percentage improvement that 3 metre difference at 0C represents.

If it's of any help here's the Highway's Code chart of stopping distances:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/dr_consum_.../@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070645.pdf

 

[BTB 500]

If it's of any help here's the Highway's Code chart of stopping distances

Aren't those based on cross-ply tyres and drum brakes?

 

[wemorgan]

Aren't those based on cross-ply tyres and drum brakes?

Ah yes, that old chestnut. You're quite possibly correct

 

[raymont]

Would be interesting to see what the actual stopping distances were ... i.e. what percentage improvement that 3 metre difference at 0C represents.

I'd be willing to bet that testing different makes/brands of summer tyre alongside each other at 7C (or whatever) would yield similar differences in stopping distance, depending on how hard/soft the compound and the tread pattern/depth.

For what it's worth here are a couple of links with somewhat limited information.

Agree with your remarks about brands , tread patterns, compounds etc.

Legal limit for tyres is 1.6mm but wet braking performance falls off very quickly once below 3mm. More gain to be had from making the limit 3mm than worrying about winter tyres that perform better below seven degrees and, rather importantly, worse above 7 degrees.

Continental Tires -Once temperatures drop below 7 °C switch to winter tyres.

Continental Tyres -Why cold weather tyres

 

[rf065]

I'd be willing to bet that testing different makes/brands of summer tyre alongside each other at 7C (or whatever) would yield similar differences in stopping distance, depending on how hard/soft the compound and the tread pattern/depth.

That is a valid point, last year there was a link posted to a Finnish tyre test of winter tyres. The "good" winter tyres were Vredestein, Nokian etc, a set of Federal winter tyres were thrown out after the first couple of runs as they were so bad.

Russ

 

[AllanE]

Do you wear shorts and t shirts all year round?

Don't be silly, not ALL year round, or when I go out in public...