Young drivers and fast cars,Very sad M5 crash

[mattc]

If he crashed going along a runway, its 99.99% sure that it was excessive speed that was the major reason for the accident.

Not the fact that he ran out of runway?

Sorry if i am about to come across as a bit callous and heartless but this is Darwinism in action (albeit in a slightly accelerated fashion). We as humans have evolved to the point where we shape our very environment but our thinking has not evolved at the same pace! Our modern "lifestyle" -and i hate that expression - means we have invented new ways to kill ourselves since we have established ourselves as the apex species on the planet.

Whilst i feel sorry for his friends they did choose to get in a car with 507bhp in full flow with a driver they KNEW did not have the experience to be piloting it. They could have been on Edwards air force runway (11 miles for the space shuttle IIRC) and he probably would have managed a way to perform the same feat.

Personally i prefer he did for himself where he did. Imagine doing that sort of thing on a public highway and taking half a dozen complete innocents out as he ploughs through a shop frontage.

I now expect to be flamed.

Mttc

 

[ibrar]

Didnt have time to read it through but the did kid die??

 

[mattc]

just read the last 2 pages of the original thread - you ge tthe flavour

 

[Fady]

I just did a quick Google search (there are loads of hits). According to one paper the guy had several convictions for speeding in 2006, had previously had a suspended licence (i.e. taken away for a period), and committed some sort of traffic violation as recently as a week ago. Seems like he was accident waiting to happen. Obviously one loss of live is a shame, but taking 4 of his friends with him. As well as maybe restricting the insurance grouping of young drivers, it might be as well to restrict the number of passengers to a maximum of one?

 

[BTB 500]

Pretty sure in some US states you can still drive at 16.

 

[Ratz]

Not the fact that he ran out of runway?

Sorry if i am about to come across as a bit callous and heartless but this is Darwinism in action (albeit in a slightly accelerated fashion). We as humans have evolved to the point where we shape our very environment but our thinking has not evolved at the same pace! Our modern "lifestyle" -and i hate that expression - means we have invented new ways to kill ourselves since we have established ourselves as the apex species on the planet.

Whilst i feel sorry for his friends they did choose to get in a car with 507bhp in full flow with a driver they KNEW did not have the experience to be piloting it. They could have been on Edwards air force runway (11 miles for the space shuttle IIRC) and he probably would have managed a way to perform the same feat.

Personally i prefer he did for himself where he did. Imagine doing that sort of thing on a public highway and taking half a dozen complete innocents out as he ploughs through a shop frontage.

I now expect to be flamed.

Mttc

Glad to oblige at least a little on the flaming .

Darwin is fine when it suits, however many of the things you take for granted on your car have come about through the exploits of individuals such as the guy in the M5. Safety does not progress unless people are injured or die.

 

[mattc]

Glad to oblige at least a little on the flaming .

Darwin is fine when it suits, however many of the things you take for granted on your car have come about through the exploits of individuals such as the guy in the M5. Safety does not progress unless people are injured or die.

That was not flaming!

Many of the things in that M5 are most definitely NOT in my car-its far too trick for its own good (and did nothing to save him in the end )

Safety these days is driven by legislation, litigation and plain old ass covering. I work for an ammunition manufacturer so i see it all the time (look on a box of ammo - the thing invariably states "danger of death" - really Sherlock!?! its ammunition FFS!)

It's stupidity that got that kid and his friends killed. Whilst i can imagine the feelings of his family and friends, I wont shed crocodile tears for the passing of someone, if the Google post is to be believed, who did not have the sense to know he was out of his depth. Also, i certainly do not agree his death/exploits will make cars safer one iota.

Mattc

 

[Mr E]

I, for one, will be letting my 13-year-old read this. He likes to proclaim that he can drive because he's pretty good on the Playstation! He can't wait to jump into a car, boot it, drift it through the traffic, bounce calmly off the odd car or bit of street furniture, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, even compared to driver education in this country, the US is utterly ridiculous. The standards of driving are appalling. Also remember, this kid would have had his license taken away in the UK after two speeding offenses (although this was off-road, it may have driven the lesson home a bit to both him and his parents).

I was lucky - through my dad I drove on tracks from about the age of 14, and had skills demonstrated to me by drivers at the top of their game (single seat and saloon / GT). I also saw how things went wrong very quickly at speed, even in the hands of experts. It didn't stop me totalling my first car - albeit through mechanical failure, but I was pushing it at the time.

When you're young you can never be told and have to learn the hard way. but let's take every opportunity to try and educate those nearest and dearest to us.

P.S.: If anyone has a private track and fast car they'd like to let a 13yo lad hoon about in, please let me know.......

 

[stats007]

There are stories that they had been to a party and were drinking though not confirmed.

What I find disturbing is all of the discussion (some not so nice) on numerous forums and the boys haven't even had their funerals.

 

[chriswt]

Also, i certainly do not agree his death/exploits will make cars safer one iota.

Mattc

His crash wont, but it may/well go towards changing legislation. Take for example Ford motor companies policy to allow any family member to drive a Ford employees company car. During the last 80's and early 90's 17 and 18 year old kids were driving around in their Dads Cossies and 24v Granadas fully insured.

It took a crash in Essex where most of the passengers were killed for Fords to restrict family members under the age of 21 from Driving cars of 2lt or larger and Cossies.

Side impact bars, airbags etc all come about when it becomes obvious that people are dying because of certain weaknesses in a cars design.

Look at how pedestrian safety is now a major factor in car design.

 

[mattc]

There are stories that they had been to a party and were drinking though not confirmed.

What I find disturbing is all of the discussion (some not so nice) on numerous forums and the boys haven't even had their funerals.

Now what is the mantra you hear people coming out with? Usually some specious words along the lines of "we need to learn the lessons and ensure something like this never happens again".

My experience in life tells me this is not the case; they are BS words that mean nothing and the people who are predisposed to hoon around will carry on doing it. the kid is dead, so are his mates, its tragic (for his family - personally I do not care). Sorry if his passing gives me something to prattle on about and makes his departing this world seem somewhat meaningless (which it is in my opinion).

Pound to a penny some of his peer group thought he was an accident waiting to happen and privately thought he got what was coming his way - perhaps I am a little more honest and am saying loud and clear? Which is why i can be blunt at times and come across as harsh.

anyway..this will only degenerate so, having said my piece, i will retire from this thread

mattc

 

[chriswt]

Now what is the mantra you hear people coming out with? Usually some specious words along the lines of "we need to learn the lessons and ensure something like this never happens again".

My experience in life tells me this is not the case; they are BS words that mean nothing and the people who are predisposed to hoon around will carry on doing it. the kid is dead, so are his mates, its tragic (for his family - personally I do not care). Sorry if his passing gives me something to prattle on about and makes his departing this world seem somewhat meaningless (which it is in my opinion).

Pound to a penny some of his peer group thought he was an accident waiting to happen and privately thought he got what was coming his way - perhaps I am a little more honest and am saying loud and clear? Which is why i can be blunt at times and come across as harsh.

anyway..this will only degenerate so, having said my piece, i will retire from this thread

mattc

Matt, his death and the death of his friends will no doubt have had a profound effect on may people. Just look at the reaction its having on several forums.

If just a handful of drivers change their attitude towards speeding and 'hooning around' then this terrible crash will have done some good.

As for having to retire from this thread because you are being blunt and harsh, I don't see why you have too. You're quite entitled to have a rant on a subject that you feel passionately about. Dangerous driving can and does effect us all and so I'll happily listen to anyone who has something to say on the subject.

 

[BTB 500]

If just a handful of drivers change their attitude towards speeding and 'hooning around' then this terrible crash will have done some good.

That's very unlikely IMO, teenagers kill themselves in cars and always have done. Hardly a day goes by without a newspaper story here ... the difference being it's usually a Punto / Nova / Clio or whatever rather than an M5. But they're still dead.

 

[chriswt]

That's very unlikely IMO, teenagers kill themselves in cars and always have done. Hardly a day goes by without a newspaper story here ... the difference being it's usually a Punto / Nova / Clio or whatever rather than an M5. But they're still dead.

With all due respect, you'll never hear about the ones that have made the change becuase they wont be the ones that crash!!

 

[verytalldave]

You have to say it how you feel. Better to be honest, yet harsh than dishonest and "caring". A part of me agrees with you, yet its a tragic, terrible waste of young lives. And as such, I feel I cant be quite as black and white as you are.
There but for the grace of God goes many of us if we are truthful. I know and acknowledge that I am bloody lucky to be alive after some of the utterly stupid things I did when I was in my teens and driving.
I wont go into too many details but the fact that I am still standing here after 58 years and with 3 great kids to show for it owes more to a smattering of good fortune than driving skill.
They simply wernt blessed with the luck I had. And thats the truth.

 

[stats007]

If you spend a lot of time on forums and then 'buy-in' to someone's personality then find out they're dead it affects you.

This is the north end of the runway - doesn't look like it would be well lit - flying off the end at 100mph would indicate that he didn't know where he was or was trying to hit a speed and stayed on the power for far too long (adrenalin/booze/egging on - whatever the reason).

 

[mattc]

Could not resist posting (I AM WEAK!)

I know its tragic, I know the repercussions will last for a lifetime for people directly linked to the individuals. I really dont see things in black and white; i just cannot engage in some "faux" caring about the guy. I remember 1997 and was appauled at the "outpouring" of grief for Diana - i simply do not understand this breast beating for people we know nothing about.

As you say Chriswt - lets hope some people learn and we never hear about them because they had the wisdom to learn from anothers bad experience.

You have to say it how you feel. Better to be honest, yet harsh than dishonest and "caring". A part of me agrees with you, yet its a tragic, terrible waste of young lives. And as such, I feel I cant be quite as black and white as you are.
There but for the grace of God goes many of us if we are truthful. I know and acknowledge that I am bloody lucky to be alive after some of the utterly stupid things I did when I was in my teens and driving.
I wont go into too many details but the fact that I am still standing here after 58 years and with 3 great kids to show for it owes more to a smattering of good fortune than driving skill.
They simply wernt blessed with the luck I had. And thats the truth.

 

[SilverSaloon]

i cant seem to get this story out of my head today....

 

[BTB 500]

With all due respect, you'll never hear about the ones that have made the change becuase they wont be the ones that crash!!

Of course. But sadly the teenage mentality doesn't lends itself particularly well to learning from others ... the belief in personal invincibility is too strong.

 

[Hanzz]

Very sad and also very frightening. One minute you can be on a forum posting about your new car, the next, gone.

Thoughts are with the families that have to deal with such a loss in this way.