MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
Having insurance or not has no direct influence on driving standards (it could be argued that poor drivers may also tend not to bother with tax/insurance/etc, though that's something of a generalisation).
I would replace 3 in your list with driver attitude. All the training in the world is wasted if the driver believes it places him above everyone else on the road, or somehow makes him invincible. Being well trained is half the battle, but retaining and wisely applying this knowledge is just as important.
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..and that it's those drivers with points on their license or previous at-fault claims that may find it too expensive to get cover come renewal time...
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Sorry.
A car that is not insured properly is one that it not entitled to be on the road.
It therefore increases road safety by it's absence.
God help any vehicle that is involved in an accident involving me or my car if I can show it is modified and undeclared.
I'll have the driver's ********.
MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
Agreed, but a car (or driver) doesn't become more safe by having insurance - it's incidental.
If my insurance expires while I'm driving along, does that make me more likely to have an accident? Insurance is there to deal with the aftermath of an accident - it's not a causal factor in itself. You could even argue that a driver with no insurance is likely to be ultra-cautious, a) so as not to have an accident in the first place and b) for fear of being stopped by the police and found out.
I had read there is an interesting concept in some parts of Spain for resident owner/drivers, not sure about how or if other countries do it. The vehicle itself is 'insured' and not the driver.
It could work here very well.
Lets say in the UK the VED and 'Vehicle' Insurance could be aligned, and a single payment covered both. This would remove all uninsured drivers off the road. A 'leagalised' vehicle would show a valid disc (like the tax disc we have now)
UK Insurers would not like it because they couldnt cane the UK motorist with OTT personal premiums. The insurers could collect and pay DVLA VED as a percentage of their cover. That means you can reduce the queues in the Post Offices and keep the insurance and taxation integrated on one database.
It could work here very well.
Lets say in the UK the VED and 'Vehicle' Insurance could be aligned, and a single payment covered both. This would remove all uninsured drivers off the road. A 'leagalised' vehicle would show a valid disc (like the tax disc we have now)
UK Insurers would not like it because they couldnt cane the UK motorist with OTT personal premiums. The insurers could collect and pay DVLA VED as a percentage of their cover. That means you can reduce the queues in the Post Offices and keep the insurance and taxation integrated on one database.
MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
So car insurance becomes nationalised, and is underwritten by HM Treasury?
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It does. It simply should not be on the road. That's the rules.
Same rules that dictate the MOT status of our cars, the speed limits of the road we travel on, the tread depth of our tyres, our sobriety etc.
There is no real debate to modified cars. They either conform and declare to the insurers and pay the premium or get the hell off the roads.
It WILL save the lives of our youth.
MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
Come on LTD - unlike an MoT, insurance has nothing to do with whether or not a car is safe, and may only have a passing relevance to the competence of the driver. Removing a safe car and competent driver from the roads won't make them any safer - other than by dint of the fact that there are fewer cars to crash into.
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Mocas
What would you rather happen ?
Your loved one's life terminated on their road home by an uninsured vehicle crashing head-on into his/her car
or
Your loved on terminating their journey at your home to share a nice meal at the end of the day ?
Properly declared insurance is a legal requirement of a car being on the road. If we ignore the basic semantics of legislation - where does it end ?
What would you rather happen ?
Your loved one's life terminated on their road home by an uninsured vehicle crashing head-on into his/her car
or
Your loved on terminating their journey at your home to share a nice meal at the end of the day ?
Properly declared insurance is a legal requirement of a car being on the road. If we ignore the basic semantics of legislation - where does it end ?
@ MOCAS ''Agreed, but a car (or driver) doesn't become more safe by having insurance - it's incidental. Insurance is there to deal with the aftermath of an accident - it's not a causal factor in itself. ''
I understand that its not the root cause but...
If insurance is not there, imagine that you are thrid party TPFT insured (which you are quite within your rights to be) and are hit by an uninsured driver (unisured for whatever reason) then you 'lose' in every respect. Whilst having 'no insurance' is in itself is not causal, the resultant accident's 'cause' becomes immaterial as no claim can be placed upon it, therefore the cause is irrelevent. The fact that whilst people remain uninsured using vehicles this surely increases the risk taken by you and I to travel on roads and decreases all of our relative safety.
SAFETY-the state of being safe; freedom from the occurrence or risk of injury, danger, or loss.
I understand that its not the root cause but...
If insurance is not there, imagine that you are thrid party TPFT insured (which you are quite within your rights to be) and are hit by an uninsured driver (unisured for whatever reason) then you 'lose' in every respect. Whilst having 'no insurance' is in itself is not causal, the resultant accident's 'cause' becomes immaterial as no claim can be placed upon it, therefore the cause is irrelevent. The fact that whilst people remain uninsured using vehicles this surely increases the risk taken by you and I to travel on roads and decreases all of our relative safety.
SAFETY-the state of being safe; freedom from the occurrence or risk of injury, danger, or loss.
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What if ....
Our cherished Mercedes Benz is involved in an accident with a car that is not properly insured and is subsequently written-off as 'non-cost viable' despite you happily paying the premium to make sure your car is road-LEGAL.
I know that a decent shunt in my S500 will probably make it a write-off.
How angry do you become ?
Our cherished Mercedes Benz is involved in an accident with a car that is not properly insured and is subsequently written-off as 'non-cost viable' despite you happily paying the premium to make sure your car is road-LEGAL.
I know that a decent shunt in my S500 will probably make it a write-off.
How angry do you become ?
@MARK
Active Member
My answer is simple.
Armco (the metal stuff that stops you ending up in the opposite lane when everything goes wrong) is designed and built to work up to speeds of 75mph.
You hay have noticed a lot of motorway now has concrete in the middle of it as this works better.
But before you can up the speed on all motorways you would be faced with years of roadworks as they do this upgrade work.
No thanks
Besides, in most cases I would be grateful just to be able to do 70mph
But if you can convince me that all those 85year old Nissan Micra drivers will be fine with the higher speed limit and will not continue doing 56mph in the middle lane, go for it.
Armco (the metal stuff that stops you ending up in the opposite lane when everything goes wrong) is designed and built to work up to speeds of 75mph.
You hay have noticed a lot of motorway now has concrete in the middle of it as this works better.
But before you can up the speed on all motorways you would be faced with years of roadworks as they do this upgrade work.
No thanks
Besides, in most cases I would be grateful just to be able to do 70mph
But if you can convince me that all those 85year old Nissan Micra drivers will be fine with the higher speed limit and will not continue doing 56mph in the middle lane, go for it.
MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
That's an invlaid question, though. What you meant to ask was:
What would you rather happen ?
Your loved one's life terminated on their road home by an uninsured vehicle crashing head-on into his/her car
or
Your loved one's life terminated on their road home by a fully insured vehicle crashing head-on into his/her car
I suspect that in such circumstances, the fact the the driver was insured would be of little comfort or significance.Your loved one's life terminated on their road home by an uninsured vehicle crashing head-on into his/her car
or
Your loved one's life terminated on their road home by a fully insured vehicle crashing head-on into his/her car
Having insurance or not won't make the accident any more or less likely to happen. It just means there's a payout if the worst happens.
I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have insurance; just that it doesn't contribute to safety in and of itself.
MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
Your last line sums it up well. Insurance removes none of the those risks - it just provides financial compensation should they occur. Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't have it, just that not having it doesn't necessarily increase the risk of an accident happening. In fact, as cited in a previous post of mine, not having insurance could actually serve to reduce the risk.
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Sorry.
Cars on the road need to be properly insured or they should not be there at all.
Simples ....
Cars on the road need to be properly insured or they should not be there at all.
Simples ....
MOCAŠ
MB Enthusiast
Sorry - again, nothing to do with safety, or the risk of an accident happening.
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No un-insured car on the road - no accident involving it.
)
