80mph speed limits, Pah

[LTD]

Mocas

A car that does not conform to the requirements of the legislation governing usage of our roads is not allowed to be on them.

A car that does conform is allowed.

Colour or stripes does not make a difference unless coupled with a mitigating offence.

Accidents happen. However, if a car should not be there in the first place then the accident should not happen.

 

[markjay]

....Accidents happen. However, if a car should not be there in the first place then the accident should not happen.

If your argument is that uninsured cars should be removed from our roads altogether, then it makes sense.

However if your argument is that uninsured cars should be insured, then it doesn't.

 

[LTD]

If your argument is that uninsured cars should be removed from our roads altogether, then it makes sense.

You got it !!!!

 

[renault12ts]

Mocas

A car that does not conform to the requirements of the legislation governing usage of our roads is not allowed to be on them.

A car that does conform is allowed.

Colour or stripes does not make a difference unless coupled with a mitigating offence.

Accidents happen. However, if a car should not be there in the first place then the accident should not happen.

Correct...and each time you decide to stay at home...the roads are also safer because your car can't be in an accident. The same for me and any other driver...insured or not.

 

[LTD]

So insuring a car is total ****** then ?

 

[MOCAŠ]

So insuring a car is total ****** then ?

Nobody's saying that.

It's not only a legal requirement to insure a car for road use, it also the sensible and responsible thing to do. I've made it very clear that I agree with this point.

But having insurance does not directly contribute to road safety. That's all.

 

[renault12ts]

So insuring a car is total ****** then ?

No, of course you want to insure your car. You want to make sure that if it gets stolen, or is involved in an accident that you are compensated financially.

But it doesn't make you a better driver for having it. Nor a worse driver if you don't either on purpose or accidently by ommision.

I found I had been uninsured for a period of a week due to a **** up. I don't believe I was more likely to have an accident during that seven days. But if I had had one the financial and legal consequences may have been awful.

No one has argued that having insurance is not both a legal requirement and a necessity...but it does not make the car or the driver more dangerous for not having it.

Except in circumstances where the car would be uninsurable due to not being roadworthy. Or the driver for some reason also uninsurable due to mental or physical impairment which would effect the ability to safely control a vehicle.

 

[Apial]

Driving 40mph on a motorway can lead to a chat with an officer for obstruction so I heard.

I dare say in fog and bad conditions it won't, but the ton limit would only be available in good clear quiet conditions.

They should trial it on the M6 toll.

Mos HGVs are only doing 15mph faster than that, so if you raise the speed limit to 100mph, will they have to travel at a minimum speed of 70mph to avoid a "chat"?

My lorry will only do 62mph flat out and its not restricted. With a full load its stopping distance is similar to a super tanker.

I think you are all forgetting that there are other road users who can't even do 60mph let alone 100mph.

 

[flango]

That's a very good point, we should do what they do in Germany also and at certain times restrict HGV to the inside lane only thus avoiding these elephant racing issues that some HGV drivers deem acceptable. This is Practised on the A42 and A1 in the UK and it works perfectly so should be extended to all other major roads, maybe we should start a petition

 

[Bellow]

My point is that whilst 70 is legal on the A90, and on the M74 but the roads differ immensely in quality and that IMHO is not right.

Either the 70 is right for the A90, and therefore too slow for the M74, or the 70 is too fast for the A90 and right for the M74.

Out of the bits in Italics, which do you feel is best.

Remember what you said about accidents on the A90 and frequent B road diversions whilst its mopped up plus perhaps the merits of a slower speed limit but less accidents meaning journey times are more predictable?

I'd personally say from driving along the A90, 70 really is the upper limit of what I would say is acceptable and I tend to travel on it below 70 to be honest, seen a few near misses myself, whereas 70 on a quiet 3 lane motorway really is too slow.

I see your point and it reminds me of the attempt to equalise retirement age across gender - remember what happened? Not the outcome that those asking for the change wanted, but change nonetheless..

Put it this way, if they put a 60limit on it I would not be annoyed, but if they didn't up parts of the motorway to 80 or above, I would be annoyed.

Do you feel the same? Do your experiences echo mine?

No! I'd be ******* livid if the A90 was reduced to 60mph. I can do 60mph down my farm track - 70mph on two lanes of A90 presents me with no problem whatsoever. Higher limits will inevetably pose a problem to some (however few), and I do not want them causing the road to be closed due to accidents.

There is a difference between us though - I drive as part of my job. Slowing to 6/7ths speed does not serve me. It is in the direction of reducing the speed to 10mph. Virtually eliminates the possibility of any accident related delay, but alas, the people I'm going to see have gone home by the time I get there.

 

[Bellow]

I think the best for all would be a sensible attitude to speed by all concerned, including the police, and to punish poor or dangerous driving.

This would allow drivers to press on where the weather conditions and road layout allow whilst forcing drivers to adopt better driving practices by penalising those guilty of lane-hogging or driving without consideration for other road users or the conditions.

The difficulty with this is the resistance most crap drivers will have to change and the legal minefield that is 'the police officer's opinion on what is unacceptable'. Proper guidelines in statute would be difficult to word apart from 'use common sense where necessary'.

A reasonable summary of where we are - and of the difficulties in moving forward.

Again I'm asking though - don't variable limits work?

 

[st4]

I see your point and it reminds me of the attempt to equalise retirement age across gender - remember what happened? Not the outcome that those asking for the change wanted, but change nonetheless..
.

Yeah, I am off to work for 2 more years. Point taken.

A reasonable summary of where we are - and of the difficulties in moving forward.

Again I'm asking though - don't variable limits work?

I think variable limits work just a treat actually, I was skeptical but several runs through the M6 pre and most this work sees the variable system as a major improvement, I've only been on the 25 with the variable limits and gantry cameras, but flow usually seems consistant but slowish, but there are so many cars on there all at once. Never seen an accident in that section(s) of road either....

 

[markjay]

Perhaps the issue is that variable speed limited is a costly option? It requires high-resolution real-time traffic-density monitoring, a gantry system with frequent displays, and a speed enforcement system... perhaps a bit too much cost to roll-out throughout the national motorway system?

 

[st4]

Perhaps the issue is that variable speed limited is a costly option? It requires high-resolution real-time traffic-density monitoring, a gantry system with frequent displays, and a speed enforcement system... perhaps a bit too much cost to roll-out throughout the national motorway system?

They do not have to be so frequent, every 5 miles or so?

 

[markjay]

They do not have to be so frequent, every 5 miles or so?

I don't know what are the correct intervals... but I think the displays need to be reasonably frequent otherwise you'll find motorists 'forgetting' what the speed limit was... with 5 mile intervals going 60 you'll see one every five minutes... enough to make you wonder if the lowered speed limit is still applicable, or indeed still needed. I think.

 

[SilverSaloon]

I think the current 70mph limit is fine.

the cops can then police anything over it at their discretion based on road conditions at the time. i bet they turn a blind eye in situations where its not a problem, but 100mph limits will just mean people who do 90mph now will go to 120mph

 

[st4]

Has to be 100 all the way then, with only variables reducing it at trouble spots.

Sounds fun

 

[redbaron]

I think the current 70mph limit is fine.

the cops can then police anything over it at their discretion based on road conditions at the time. i bet they turn a blind eye in situations where its not a problem, but 100mph limits will just mean people who do 90mph now will go to 120mph

I think you are wrong... people don't want to go that fast for fuel / comfort reasons - I think a 80 / 90 limit would see most people drive not that much faster... variable limits based on traffic / weather are the sensible option but a hard limit 70 is too slow given the capability of modern machinery.

 

[st4]

To go at 120mph is surely to slow down Mr Baron, you have a BMW ?

 

[markjay]

This is an interesting point.

A professional test pilot I once knew told me that when driving a car on a motorway the greatest risk stems not from the vehicle's speed per-se, but from your 'closing speed' - i.e. the relative speed between your vehicle and other traffic moving in the same direction in parallel.

It is interesting that with the UK's 70mph limit, the speed differences between traffic moving in different lanes isn't that big. I would say that on average the NS lane is moving at 60, the middle lane at 70, and the OS lane 80 (with occasional vehicles zooming past slightly faster).

In Germany the differences in lane speed on unrestricted motorways are far far higher (my earliest experience of this was in 1990 when I was driving 180kmh in a rented Ford Sierra in the outer lane, and was overtaken by a Lancia Delta HF Integrale going much much faster than I was...). This is potentially a serious risk factor.

Incidentally, or rather tragically, the test pilot died some 15 years ago with his student during an aerobatics lesson in a two-seater Zlin trainer.