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A classic, parking ticket tale

A

Ashley

Guest
I got a ticket today for parking on double yellow lines.

Best bit, I had pulled car over to make a phone call, and had not even, a) tuned engine off b) got out of car (which I had no plan to).
 
don't they have to have got the ticket to the windscreen before you are liable?
 
If you hadn't exited the car, and the engine is still running, had you even parked? Dubious, to say the least.
 
Surely a car is not parked when the engine is till running?

And you are required to pull in if you want to use the phone?

That is ridiculous - surely it can be disputed as you weren't parked. I would assume that the same would apply if you e.g., broke down and were awaiting roadside AA or something?
 
just coming down, from my rant I think I may appeal this.
 
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robert.saunders said:
Double Yellow Lines mean No Waiting, not No Parking


So, if you park on them and get a ticket could you argue that in an appeal ?

I wasn't waiting, i had gone shopping , i wasn't waiting for anyone or anything .... i wasn't even with the car ....
 
robert.saunders said:
Double Yellow Lines mean No Waiting, not No Parking
So presumably if there is a queue of cars waiting at a junction adjacent double-yellas then they're all ticket-worthy? :)
 
Howard said:
So, if you park on them and get a ticket could you argue that in an appeal ?

I wasn't waiting, i had gone shopping , i wasn't waiting for anyone or anything .... i wasn't even with the car ....

You could appeal whatever you like! Definition, however, of the yellow lines is No Waiting, and double yellow lines infer "at any time"

Rob
 
let us know how you get on if you appeal the decision,
i tjink you mak get the standars letter and your punisment will not be rescinded, maybe i am wrong.

these places are a law unto themselves & they are meeting targets.
 
Right, bit more complicated sadly.

02 is an "instant PCN" ie there were loading restrictions in place at the time you "waited/parked". The Attendant doesn't have to give any observation time at all.

It strikes me a little harsh, but the reality of the law is as I described.

Worth an appeal, because even though the Highway where loading restrictions are in place is an "instant PCN" discretion still needs to be observed by the Attendant - passengers for example may still alight where a loading restriction is in place, and adjudication look dimly upon the Attendant and indeed the Local Authority if penalty charge notices are handed out a bit too harshly, and more importantly payment pursued.

In this case, it sounds like the Attendant did their job correctly - whether you agree with the enforcement or not - but it's down to the parking appeals team to decide whether to pursue this PCN for payment, so you need to appeal it. Remember, your initial appeal could be rejected but you will still have the chance for a formal representation but you lose the right of reduced payment should you have to pay, but that's also the law as it stands. Fomally you may decide to take your representation (if rejected again) to NPAS for an adjudicator to make a decision.

I assume the PCN has 2 dates on it - date of notice (or issue) AND date of contravention? If it has only 1 date, let me know.

Rob
 
I saw a legal bulletin about that sometime ago :D. Cheers Rob as it only has the date of issue.

edit: just doinf the letter, I will post it here for you to see,
 
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Dear Sir/Madam:

I write in reference to PCN: XXXXXXX issued to registration XXXXXXX and I now make formal appeal to said.

I ask you to strike this PCN out on the following ground.






I rely upon my constitutional right to be free of fines and forfeitures before conviction.





Bill of Rights Act 1689:

“That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void”



Divisional Court ruling in "Neutral Citation Number: [2001] EWCH Admin 934" (sections 62, 63 and 64) said:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]62 Where does this leave the constitutional position which I have stated? Mr Shrimpton would say that Factortame (No 1) was wrongly decided; and since the point was not argued, there is scope, within the limits of our law of precedent, to depart from it and to hold that implied repeal may bite on the ECA as readily as upon any other statute. I think that would be a wrong turning. My reasons are these. In the present state of its maturity the common law has come to recognise that there exist rights which should properly be classified as constitutional or fundamental: see for example such cases as Simms [2000] 2 AC 115 per Lord Hoffmann at 131, Pierson v Secretary of State [1998] AC 539, Leech [1994] QB 198, Derbyshire County Council v Times Newspapers Ltd. [1993] AC 534, and Witham [1998] QB 575. And from this a further insight follows. We should recognise a hierarchy of Acts of Parliament: as it were "ordinary" statutes and "constitutional" statutes. The two categories must be distinguished on a principled basis. In my opinion a constitutional statute is one which (a) conditions the legal relationship between citizen and State in some general, overarching manner, or (b) enlarges or diminishes the scope of what we would now regard as fundamental constitutional rights. (a) and (b) are of necessity closely related: it is difficult to think of an instance of (a) that is not also an instance of (b). The special status of constitutional statutes follows the special status of constitutional rights. Examples are the Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights 1689, the Act of Union, the Reform Acts which distributed and enlarged the franchise, the HRA, the Scotland Act 1998 and the Government of Wales Act 1998. The ECA clearly belongs in this family. It incorporated the whole corpus of substantive Community rights and obligations, and gave overriding domestic effect to the judicial and administrative machinery of Community law. It may be there has never been a statute having such profound effects on so many dimensions of our daily lives. The ECA is, by force of the common law, a constitutional statute. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]63 Ordinary statutes may be impliedly repealed. Constitutional statutes may not. For the repeal of a constitutional Act or the abrogation of a fundamental right to be effected by statute, the court would apply this test: is it shown that the legislature's actual � not imputed, constructive or presumed � intention was to effect the repeal or abrogation? I think the test could only be met by express words in the later statute, or by words so specific that the inference of an actual determination to effect the result contended for was irresistible. The ordinary rule of implied repeal does not satisfy this test. Accordingly, it has no application to constitutional statutes. I should add that in my judgment general words could not be supplemented, so as to effect a repeal or significant amendment to a constitutional statute, by reference to what was said in Parliament by the minister promoting the Bill pursuant to Pepper v Hart [1993] AC 593. A constitutional statute can only be repealed, or amended in a way which significantly affects its provisions touching fundamental rights or otherwise the relation between citizen and State, by unambiguous words on the face of the later statute. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]64 This development of the common law regarding constitutional rights, and as I would say constitutional statutes, is highly beneficial. It gives us most of the benefits of a written constitution, in which fundamental rights are accorded special respect. But it preserves the sovereignty of the legislature and the flexibility of our uncodified constitution. It accepts the relation between legislative supremacy and fundamental rights is not fixed or brittle: rather the courts (in interpreting statutes, and now, applying the HRA) will pay more or less deference to the legislature, or other public decision-maker, according to the subject in hand. Nothing is plainer than that this benign development involves, as I have said, the recognition of the ECA as a constitutional statute.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Since the Bill of Rights Act 1689 was specifically classified as a "constitutional Act" in their Lordships summing up. The Road Traffic Acts 1991 and 1994 others like it are, by contrast, "ordinary" Acts. Unless the road traffic acts expressly refer to the fundamental rights laid down by the Bill of Rights Act (which they do not), they must fall by the wayside since, according to the Divisional Court, the Bill of Rights Act cannot be impliedly repealed. Since this is the case I fail to see your right to levy fines before conviction, and I appeal on constitutional grounds.

I await your position.

Yours faithfully,
Zoo
I'm just in that sort of mood. They better have a chat with the lawyers.

 
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Now, if you have a case, this could get really expensive - what if they say "OK, lets go to court and find out?"!!!

:eek:
 
I can do my own court case.

Edit: a lower court can only agree with a higher court, and if it came to appeal I could always pass the hat round.
 
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I'm not sure I understand that. Are you saying that no government has any right to order you to pay a penalty charge because they have not "convicted" you of an offense? That seems to be the crux of your argument. I don't see how that can be true; thousands of fixed penalties are imposed every day in the UK...

-simon
 

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