Advice needed: Hit and run car park incident

[219]

Who can do that, and how much would it cost?

I agree joe public might not have easy access to a forensic lab , some colleges and universities have labs and if you have a contact there , they may be able to help ( Cardonald College here in Glasgow do evening classes in forensic science with the participants being able to use their labs ) . Vehicle paint manufacturers will also have well equipped labs . If one of the vehicles involved had an unusual paint colour , you could even go down to your local automotive paint supplier and match a sample using their colour matching charts .

As for 'scraping' paint off the other vehicle ; that's not what I meant . You will have some of the other vehicle's paint left behind on your car - recover a sample of that . On the other car , there was apparently some transferred paint from whatever vehicle it was in collision with - that transferred paint should flake off quite easily without doing any damage ( that area will be already damaged so not as if you're doing any harm anyway ) . Just don't get caught doing it in case the car belongs to a big guy

As for costs of analysis - no idea - but if you come up with the goods then yours or the other party's insurance should reimburse costs since they should then be able to claim off the perp .

All depends how sure you are .

 

[Swiss Toni]

I agree joe public might not have easy access to a forensic lab , some colleges and universities have labs and if you have a contact there , they may be able to help ( Cardonald College here in Glasgow do evening classes in forensic science with the participants being able to use their labs ) . Vehicle paint manufacturers will also have well equipped labs . If one of the vehicles involved had an unusual paint colour , you could even go down to your local automotive paint supplier and match a sample using their colour matching charts .

As for 'scraping' paint off the other vehicle ; that's not what I meant . You will have some of the other vehicle's paint left behind on your car - recover a sample of that . On the other car , there was apparently some transferred paint from whatever vehicle it was in collision with - that transferred paint should flake off quite easily without doing any damage ( that area will be already damaged so not as if you're doing any harm anyway ) . Just don't get caught doing it in case the car belongs to a big guy

As for costs of analysis - no idea - but if you come up with the goods then yours or the other party's insurance should reimburse costs since they should then be able to claim off the perp .

All depends how sure you are .

Again, the idea is good, but the practicalities are slightly different...

Without a sample of paint from the other vehicle, you have no evidence - I100% guarantee that the sample of "suspect" paint on the innocent vehicle will not forensically match anything you get from either a car accesory store or even a dealer. You'll be told "It's silver paint, mate"

If you try and get a sample of paint from the vehicle you "suspect" of being to blame, you need to do it "officially" for it to have any value (insurance company aren't going to pay for your analysis costs based on "...I secretly took this from the other car..."

(And if you did it you'd be open to a charge of Criminal Damage... )

I think we are agreed this would all be a bit unlikely for a scrape in a car park.

 

[219]

Its an interesting idea, but....

Rather like modern glass modern paint is mass produced in such volumes that such a match would have limited value in "proving" anything and so is not really cost effective in the case of a car-park scrape (but might be done in other crimes where it adds to other evidence already gathered).

The cost of this analysis is likely to be in the £000s (£00s at best) - and all you would get is confirmation that it is identical to a sample from the "suspect" vehicle (so you need to get a sample of that paint too...), which is of the formula used to paint 25000 other vehicles in the same manufacturing cycle.

I agree it's a long shot . However there may be four pieces of relevant evidence .

1) The original poster states that his car was undamaged when he left it in the car park and was found to be damaged on his return to it .

2) The 'suspect vehicle' has been observed to park regularly in such a position that it could easily have come in to contact with OP's vehicle whilst reversing out of a space and cause damage to each vehicle where damage has , in fact , been observed.

3) Each vehicle has transferred paint consistent with the paint on the other.

4) The damage on each vehicle lines up with that on the other . We would be looking ideally for some sort of distinctive scrape pattern in the paint of each vehicle which would be too much for coincidence . ( As I stated earlier , if you can park your vehicle up beside the other vehicle and photograph any scrape marks that line up across the two vehicles , you just might have the 'clincher')

Taken individually , each of the above means little or nothing , however , taken together the balance of probabilities change .

IF all four of the above are true ( and we don't know at this time if any of them are ) then , taken together , it could demonstrate a probability that the 'suspect vehicle' did the damage . Whether your insurer would then pursue the other party , or a magistrate in the small claims court would be impressed , would depend on the strength of any evidence .

 

[BTB 500]

I agree it's a long shot . However there may be four pieces of relevant evidence .

1) The original poster states that his car was undamaged when he left it in the car park and was found to be damaged on his return to it .

Being pedantic, no. This is anecdotal - the car doesn't belong to the OP.

 

[chriswt]

Thanks for all your advice guys,

I'll get my sister to leave a note on the silver MPV.

I would bet my life that we know what car did it.

1. Its silver
2. Its large
3. It was parked in the spot that it needed to be in to hit my sisters car
4. It was NOT parked in that spot the next day
5. It had revered into the spot the next day (to hide damage)
6. The offending car would have white marks on the N/S rear
7. It has white scrape marks on it on the NS rear.

 

[Benzowner]

..............and all this for £250 worth of damage. Now, put yourself in the position I am in. I am not accusing anyone here, but, we only have your sisters word that she did not reverse into the silver car and not the silver car reversing into her vehicle. As others have said, the paint bit will cost a lot more than the repair to your sisters car, and in order for you to get the money, I would probably think courts will be involved with all that additional cost. Get the car fixed and put it down to experience. I know its bl**dy anoying when it happens, but sh** happens.

 

[chriswt]

With all due respect I have heard the ‘only got your word’ claim twice on this forum (also when I asked for advice about my girlfriends car).

I wouldn't bother wasting anyone’s time if it were not a genuine claim. She was 15 miles away in a office when the car was hit!

Its not about money or the level of damage. Its about people getting away with smashing into someone else’s car and not even caring! The fact that they parked in the same car park the next day shows their level of ignorance.

Fewer and fewer people bother sticking up for their rights these days because they feel its ‘not worth the bother’ and so more and more people will get away with damaging/stealing/vandalising other peoples property.

When I found someone trying to break into my house via the rear garden at 3am in the morning and then run off last summer I shouldn’t have ‘bothered’ calling the police, fitting extra security or informing all my neighbours via a leflet drop but I did! The police may not have been able to arrest the two guys they found wondering around the street 2 mins after my call but at least they know that someone is on there case and so they’d be better off trying a neighbourhood with the ‘what’s-the-point’ attitude.

Sorry for the rant Geoff2, NONE of this is in any way targeted at you, it just happens to follow off the back of your post.

 

[219]

Its not about money or the level of damage.

I agree that it is probably better to take it on the chin and just have it repaired . Chances are , your sister's insurance excess is as much as the damage done , so involving insurance will only result in a loss of NCD and an increase in next year's premium It is still possible too , that this 'suspect vehicle' is not the one that damaged your sister's car , we on this forum cannot gauge how strong your evidence is .

Its about people getting away with smashing into someone else’s car and not even caring! The fact that they parked in the same car park the next day shows their level of ignorance.

Sorry to tar all MPV drivers with the same brush here , but I wouldn't be surprised if the typical driver of one of those things does not even realise he/she actually hit your sister's car . Some drivers are so bad and care so little about their own vehicles they are oblivious to such things .

Of course , there is always the possibility that the driver is uninsured and hence would wish to avoid any claims aginst himself/herself . Although the data protection act prevents them from disclosing any information to you , your insurance agent would be able to see whether or not the vehicle is insured ; they're not SUPPOSED to tell you , but if you're on good terms with someone , they might drop you a 'hint' . You could then call the police and tell them you 'suspect' the car hit your sister's a couple of days ago and you've subsequently spotted it parking nearby on a couple of consecutive days , could they have a 'word' with the driver , please ; they in turn would be entitled to do their own check and perhaps ask the driver to produce his/her documents .

 

[Swiss Toni]

I agree that it is probably better to take it on the chin and just have it repaired . Chances are , your sister's insurance excess is as much as the damage done , so involving insurance will only result in a loss of NCD and an increase in next year's premium It is still possible too , that this 'suspect vehicle' is not the one that damaged your sister's car , we on this forum cannot gauge how strong your evidence is .




Sorry to tar all MPV drivers with the same brush here , but I wouldn't be surprised if the typical driver of one of those things does not even realise he/she actually hit your sister's car . Some drivers are so bad and care so little about their own vehicles they are oblivious to such things .

Of course , there is always the possibility that the driver is uninsured and hence would wish to avoid any claims aginst himself/herself . Although the data protection act prevents them from disclosing any information to you , your insurance agent would be able to see whether or not the vehicle is insured ; they're not SUPPOSED to tell you , but if you're on good terms with someone , they might drop you a 'hint' . You could then call the police and tell them you 'suspect' the car hit your sister's a couple of days ago and you've subsequently spotted it parking nearby on a couple of consecutive days , could they have a 'word' with the driver , please ; they in turn would be entitled to do their own check and perhaps ask the driver to produce his/her documents .

I am not sure that the Police would go far on the "hunch", and there would always be the question-

What documents would they expect the other driver to produce? (for driving in a private (?) car park?

Sorry if my posts appear negative (I have been in the same situation as your sister!!) but I am trying to be practcal...

 

[Howard]

Why not write your own note saying ' I saw this car (give reg and model ) hit yours today and then drive off , i felt i should leave you a note so you knew ... etc etc '

Then when you speak to MPV driver, you can say 'I found this on my windscreen , someone saw you do it '

Then they will come clean ....

Failing that , you could always put his windows in .....

 

[anarchy-inc]

Why not write your own note saying ' I saw this car (give reg and model ) hit yours today and then drive off , i felt i should leave you a note so you knew ... etc etc '

Then when you speak to MPV driver, you can say 'I found this on my windscreen , someone saw you do it '

Then they will come clean ....

Failing that , you could always put his windows in .....

Problem is, you'll have just forged a document and if the silver car really didn't do it, they could sue you. I would.

 

[Howard]

How would they prove that you had written it ? and not some kindly old granny getting into her Micra who thought she should do the right thing .....

How would they start legal proceedings without any evidence ?

If they ask you for the note, and you decline to give it to them , and they snatch it from your hands, then that is theft .....

 

[anarchy-inc]

Yes, but WHY would someone else write such a note if it didn't happen? Who else could have written the note?

 

[Howard]

Chris doesn't know ......

He just found the note on his windscreen ......

He's not a detective, he's under no obligation to prove who wrote the note ...

He just found it ...

Anyway we are heading OT here, thats just what i would do , if all the measurements and heights and paint adds up .....

 

[marcos]

I have been in this situation when I owned an orange VX Chevette, it was actually very reliable
Anyway I found the car I thought had hit mine so contacted the Police and they took paint samples from both cars, matched them up and took the other driver to court on my behalf and I ended up with the other party having to pay my damages.
The police do have some uses, mind you that was 18yrs ago

 

[chriswt]

I have written a anonimous note and was going to tell the mpv driver that we have a witness and hopefully they would come clean. My sister also knows someone who would happily say they saw it happen.

However, I rang my insurance company and they said that they would advise going to the police and then contacting my sisters insurance company for them to battle it out.

The police would pay a visit to the MPV driver to ask for the diver detials etc and check the damage. Any person in there right mind with the police on their doorstep and the damaged car on their driveway would be mad to deny it.

I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Flasheart]

I have written a anonimous note and was going to tell the mpv driver that we have a witness and hopefully they would come clean. My sister also knows someone who would happily say they saw it happen.

However, I rang my insurance company and they said that they would advise going to the police and then contacting my sisters insurance company for them to battle it out.

The police would pay a visit to the MPV driver to ask for the diver detials etc and check the damage. Any person in there right mind with the police on their doorstep and the damaged car on their driveway would be mad to deny it.

I'll keep you all posted.

So essentially what you are saying is. From reading your first post. You have NO witnesses. No one saw the accident happen. Yet you have persuaded a perso (edit i thought you had asked two people) to lie. To get the police do anything they would be required to sign statements again lieing as to what they had seen and leaving them open to criminal prosecution for wasting police time. If the person you have assumed is to blame isn't.... then you are sounding a bit odd to me that you would intentionally get people to lie for you. Think about the boot being on the other foot. Right now you have circumstamtial at best evidence.

To paraphrase you anyone in their right mind would deny such trumped accusations... and then maybe with your lieing accomplices in tow the police might start looking elsewhere. They do seem to be taking a dim view these days of people who make up stories.

 

[Swiss Toni]

I have written a anonimous note and was going to tell the mpv driver that we have a witness and hopefully they would come clean. My sister also knows someone who would happily say they saw it happen.

However, I rang my insurance company and they said that they would advise going to the police and then contacting my sisters insurance company for them to battle it out.

The police would pay a visit to the MPV driver to ask for the diver detials etc and check the damage. Any person in there right mind with the police on their doorstep and the damaged car on their driveway would be mad to deny it.

I'll keep you all posted.

Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice is the Offence (if your sister or her mate are involved).

Maximum penalty on conviction (if this is your first criminal offence) is life imprisonment.

There is more than enough evidence here (provided by you) for you to be arrested (and to sit in the cells waiting for your opportunity to say "I didn't really mean it").

Seems a bit of a daft risk for a scrape in a car park.

 

[Benzowner]

Sorry for the rant Geoff2, NONE of this is in any way targeted at you, it just happens to follow off the back of your post.

No need to appologise, I know how you feel, my point was probably not worded very well. For the police to turn up in 2 minutes when you had your attempted break in is remarkable, when I had my break in, the police turned next day and maybe this is why certain area of the UK, shall we say, and unfortunately Bristol is one of them, attitudes to minor offences are not so vigorously pursued.

 

[chriswt]

The police station is at the top of my road and when I called 999 I told them that the guys were still in the back garden so they turned up bl@@dy quickly.

I was tempted to not bother waiting for the police and go out the back myself but I was in just my boxers and armed with a Dyson hoover attachment so I decided against it!