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Biggest Car Engines

One reason Im not so keen on the M156 is lack of low torque and how quickly it falls away
Having driven cars with the M56 engine once or twice it always surprises me that sone people describe it as lacking low down torque. Have you spend much time behind the wheel?
 
A power curve should not look like this (Stock VTec Civic)....look at that nasty hole in the torque, right middle of the revs where you need it.
The worst bit is that dip is entirely artificial to exacerbate the cam profile changeover, because racecar feels. Put correct mapping in place and it disappears entirely.
 
Just for fun here's a very old video of a control line speed model with just such an exhaust system. It takes over 10 seconds from takeoff to accelerate to the point where the engine comes 'on pipe' at about 55 secs in, giving a huge jump in power. This setup gives the absolute maximum power but would be useless for any normal application :)

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0:17 seconds . WTF is that bloke wearing !?
 
Well this thread veered off track quickly…..:eek:

there was me hoping for lists of exotic and not so exotic cars with lots of power….:fail:
 
I have a DC Spitfire which I'm considering experimenting with if my direction of travel is compatible with it. I don't have its prop though. From memory it ran with a 6 x 4 prop (6'' diameter, 4''/rotation pitch?). Does that sound right? If so, given that it will be static, is there a better prop choice (to load the motor)? I doubt that the Spitfire will be throttled but I have aThunder Tiger 20 glow motor that I'm thinking of converting to HCCI and would use it for throttling experiments. I've been told a suitable prop for it with RC is a 10 x 6. I've also read that glow motors converted to diesel require different props. Which direction re diameter and pitch and again, it being static?

I had DC Merlin (0.75 cc) and Sabre (1.5 cc) engines - the latter powered my first two r/c models in 1975. 6x4 is probably a bit small for the 1 cc Spitfire ... I'd suggest 7-8" diameter and 3-4" pitch. More diameter aids starting by giving a bit more flywheel effect, and dropping the pitch will reduce the load if necessary. I had a 1 cc ED Bee that ran very nicely on a 9x4, and my PAW .55s have 8x4s. I'd probably start with an 11x5 on a .20 ci diesel, but prop size won't be critical IMO.
 
P.A.W. 19 BR made in Macclesfield by Gig Eifflander. PAW stood for progress aero works. I ran lots of P.A.W's and Copeman tuned Olivers. Also had Eta 15 Elite in a very fast A class team racer till it hit the tarmac at Ternhill.
 
Having driven cars with the M56 engine once or twice it always surprises me that sone people describe it as lacking low down torque. Have you spend much time behind the wheel?
I'm sorry....but its not an opinion...its fact.....look at the power/torque chart....at 2500 rpm (a rev range commonly in use on the road). it produces less torque than my 2.0 derv Alfa does at 1750 rpm!!
I was looking at an E63 and C63 with that engine so drove a few....also being ex trade and still doing a bit of driving for the trade I've driven quite a few of most things!!
 
Would not let me edit....so.....!

I'm sorry....but its not an opinion...its fact.....look at the power/torque chart....at 2500 rpm (a rev range commonly in use on the road). it produces less torque than my 2.0 derv Alfa does at 1750 rpm!! I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it and they feel and sound great......but they certainly feel a bit flat if you drive a 157 first which makes more torque just off idle than the 156 makes at peak revs. The 156 certainly revs more freely and harder though if that your thing.
I was looking at an E63 and C63 with that engine so drove a few....also being ex trade and still doing a bit of driving for the trade I've driven quite a few of most things!!
 
Not obviously for production line vehicles, but GM seem to be selling a lot of their fairly new crate 632ci V8 making 1000hp out of the box. Of course these are finding their way into road cars as a custom application.
 
The7.0l 426in Dodge Hellephant is another you can buy in crate with a standalone ECU.......lots are squeezed into various 60s and 70s muscle cars..... up to 1100 hp must be lots of fun with their bendy chassis, balloon tyres and drum brakes!!

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P.A.W. 19 BR made in Macclesfield by Gig Eifflander. PAW stood for progress aero works. I ran lots of P.A.W's and Copeman tuned Olivers. Also had Eta 15 Elite in a very fast A class team racer till it hit the tarmac at Ternhill.

Yep the company is run by his sons now - great that it's still going after 50+ years. They're also the only manufacturer I know of that offers a *full* aftersales service including things like reboring. I never flew control line but the PAWs I owned were (and are) beautiful engines, and not even that expensive.

I had a .40 r/c pylon racer go vertically into tarmac on full power (around 150 mph) at RAF Wittering, and that made a right mess. Somewhere I've got a picture of the bits of the engine, it also concertina'd the braided steel throttle cable into a zig-zag shape which I would never have believed possible.

I live just down the road from Ternhill now and RAF Shawbury have to be notified of all local r/c flying activity - the whole of Shropshire is designated as a military low flying zone, with helicopters cleared to operate down to ground level!
 
Well, we have gone biggest, nearly smallest, race instead of road (my fault!) most powerful, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, most drivable and almost every other direction but I still have never heard of a production car engine bigger in capacity than Bugatti engine of the 30's!
It was a certain Mr Bugatti who said Bentley made very fast lorries....

I suppose it's only fitting they should now hold the production car speed record with my mate Andy Wallace at the wheel of this:

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But if you buy one it wont do 300 mph+. The production car's top speed is electronically capped at 273mph. So I think thats cheating!!
Looks like two other cars will go faster this year....the Koenigsegg Jesko Absolut with a predicted 310 mph plus and the Hennessey Venom F5 which should do "over 311!". It already does 0 to 186mpg in just 8.4 seconds....which I would describe as fairly nippy!! The Chiron 300+ plus takes a yawn inducing 13.1 seconds to do the same!!! Mainly because the Venon F5 weighs about the same as Ford Focus....about 1360 kg, whereas the Chiron weighs about as much as a small planet at a tad under 2 tonne! Not that weight will affect top speed of course.
 
the Chiron weighs about as much as a small planet at a tad under 2 tonne! Not that weight will affect top speed of course.
But the weight really does affect the top speed because you have got to find somewhere long enough to do it!
There are very few places on earth you can use when you are doing almost 5 miles a minute!
 
True....but given a long enough road and everything else being equal the weight will not affect the V-Max. The Hennessey Venom F5 is obviously going to need much less space to do 300 than the Chiron needed though, due to its low mass.
 
But the weight really does affect the top speed because you have got to find somewhere long enough to do it!
There are very few places on earth you can use when you are doing almost 5 miles a minute!
Which begs the question why? So few places on a planet that is facing challenges that require technical solutions. Fair enough, absolute LSR attempts - doing what has not been done before - but a lesser version that is road-going doesn't mean much to me and probably others too. Despite what its purchasers may think.
 
Well, we have gone biggest, nearly smallest, race instead of road (my fault!) most powerful, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, most drivable and almost every other direction but I still have never heard of a production car engine bigger in capacity than Bugatti engine of the 30's!
What shocked me was the low specific torque output of the 12.8l Bugatti. Circa 30-35lb.ft/litre where in current times it's hard not to achieve 55-60lb.ft/litre. Then I remembered the low octane fuel it had to contend with and the consequent low compression ratio. Yep, fuel matters, octane is king - and we can grow as good or better than can be extracted from underground. It's not the engine that should be banned but fossil fuels. We could grow our way to CO2 neutral solutions at surface level. Instead, we are doing what we always did - mine the earth for its finite resources (lithium, cobalt, etc) while pretending we are doing something new!
 
Great idea.....lets chop down more forest to "grow fuel"...(which will happen if it gets a good price) or use the land that we currently use for food to grow it! Then there is the massive amounts of energy it takes to refine it into anything remotely useful. Its would take many millions of acres to grow anything like enough for even a relatively tiny number of cars. Not gonna happen any time soon.
 
Great idea.....lets chop down more forest to "grow fuel"...(which will happen if it gets a good price) or use the land that we currently use for food to grow it!
Nope. It has to be done responsibly with CO2 reduction front and centre.
Then there is the massive amounts of energy it takes to refine it into anything remotely useful.
What's the CO2 emissions/energy used associated with the massive battery bank buffers for high speed recharging of EVs? And all the other electrical infrastructure that wouldn't be needed - or could be allocated to domestic/business use?
Its would take many millions of acres to grow anything like enough for even a relatively tiny number of cars. Not gonna happen any time soon.
Three quarters of the land growing crops to feed livestock is available. Was planet earth's surface area less thousands of years ago when the vegetation grew that become our fossil fuels which we have extracted intensively for over a century without once replanting?
 
I'm sorry....but its not an opinion...its fact.....look at the power/torque chart....at 2500 rpm (a rev range commonly in use on the road). it produces less torque than my 2.0 derv Alfa does at 1750 rpm!!
No need to apologise, I’ll take your word for it. Perhaps the M156 doesn’t feel lacking in torque to me because I’m comparing it to my car, but if you’re used driving something with much more torque than the M156 - your Alfa must be an animal by the way - then the M156 must feel slow in comparison.

they certainly feel a bit flat if you drive a 157 first which makes more torque just off idle than the 156 makes at peak revs.
I doubt many people could drive one after another to compare but it would be great to see members cars go head-to-head on a drag strip. We really ought to sort out an MBClub event at Santa Pod or similar.
 

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