Billy's W124 Coupe Project

[BillyW124]

There was an E36 Coupe for sale on here a while back, be nice to start with something MB have already done the Engineering on Billy, might be a better starting point....??

So looks like the diff mounts gave way and things went from there, was there any rumbling sound at speed on the Mway when driving normally before the incident Billy?

Not a bean, no rumbling sounds. Although having a think about it, I did notice a slight bellow sound that developed which wasn't noticeable previously. This bellow was there when moving off.

I have been doing some part number comparisons tonight, and the 320 axle shafts have 129 part numbers. The 220 axles have 124 part numbers.

The axle shafts for a V8 R129 i.e. 500's have a different part number and the dimensions of the shafts vary for the w124's and 129 320's Vs. the V8's. But by that much.

Do you reckon i can beef up the rear drive with the use of different shafts better than the 320 ones like ones used in the SL 500's?

The diff would have to be matched i guess but will have to be a non ASR/ASD. Just a normal ABS one. Not sure if the V8's would just come with ABS. Must have at least had either ASR or ASD surely?

If the diff isn't an option, can the 129 shafts from a V8 be used? not entirely sure they will fit a standard 320 diff or even the rear hub??

Any help from you or anyone on this subject would be greatly received.

 

[trapperjohn]

Cant help much Billy. But I seem to remember that axle shafts are the devils own nightmare between different 124s. Coupes, saloon and estates all have their own differences. 'appen speak to Jay. I cant remember if Ian Walker did any axle shaft swaps when he put the turbos on Mattc's 124 Coupe. Certainly it was considered.

 

[V12]

The size in drive shaft is usually just to correspond with the width if diff, of which there are many sizes.

As long as you get a set of diff and driveshafts complete from a 500SL then I can't see you having an issue.

Definitely go for the mechanical limited slip diff though, that will be the biggest upgrade you can make!

 

[BillyW124]

The size in drive shaft is usually just to correspond with the width if diff, of which there are many sizes.

As long as you get a set of diff and driveshafts complete from a 500SL then I can't see you having an issue.

Definitely go for the mechanical limited slip diff though, that will be the biggest upgrade you can make!

Thanks, V12 / John,

Here are the differences between the drive shafts. The vehicle list interestingly has the 300CE isted with the 'big boys'


German SPOB: AXLE SHAFT - REAR AXLE, ABS, W124, W210, SL R129, 660X110MM, REGENERATED MERCEDES BENZ A2103508410 / A1293504010 1243503010 1293504010 2103508410 A1243503010 A1293504010 A2103508410



German SPOB: AXLE SHAFT - REAR AXLE, WITOUT ASD/ASR, W124, R129, 670X110MM MERCEDES BENZ A1293503810, A1293503810 1293503810 A1293503810

In terms of the mechanical slip diff, what model would have one of these?

 

[V12]

From memory ASR is electronic traction and ASD is mechanical limited slip. I have a terrible memory though!

The 300 and 500 may have similar size diffs but the final drive ratio will certainly be different. You won't be able to fit a 500 speedo head from a 129 so your speedo will always be out. It would be easier to fit the 320 as you can get the speedo head and get correct ratios etc.

There are people out there that can recalibrate speedo heads though, so maybe it's not so difficult...

 

[Niks]

Quaife LSD rear diff. A member called WhippleM104 on the benz forum from the states has one on his 300CE turbo. There is a thread about his build and how he fitted it including what axle shafts he used - might be useful to see which way you want to go.

 

[RBYCC]

Billy

Don't be concerned if you can't get the ASR/ASD feature.

The early cars like mine just run an open 185mm 3.07 dif.
My guess is yoyur original I4 had the 185mm dif.
My rear setup is still factory stock 1988 300CE.
No problems at all, even with getting even traction with both wheels on a hard launch.

As far as the speedo matching the rear ratio, as V12 posted, they can be changed by a specialist.
Keep in mind the V8 cars had electronic speedo where the I4 and I6 mechanical.
If you have the electronic speedo a device like the "Yellow Box" allows for DIY calibration.

See if you can find a rear E320 subframe assembly at a breaker yard.
It should have the later larger 210mm dif.

These links may help:

35 Rear Suspension and Axle

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W124/ASD_Differential_Retrofit.pdf

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/differentials.pdf

http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_diffs/differential_info_Stu.txt

Ed A.

 

[RBYCC]

Quaife LSD rear diff. A member called WhippleM104 on the benz forum from the states has one on his 300CE turbo. There is a thread about his build and how he fitted it including what axle shafts he used - might be useful to see which way you want to go.

Quaife available in the UK in the 210mm 124 housing.

Quaife Mercedes Benz W124 500E LSD ATB Limited Slip Differential Kit - Motorsport-Tools.com

Whipple's build is supercharged and he is a bit of a "research and development" guy.

If I recall he is using CLK63 Black Series axles.
In my opinion, a bit of overkill as the standard stock 210mm housing used in the V8's and E320's are strong enough to handle Billy's application.

Ed A.

 

[fast28]

Just to add... the V8 driveshafts use an inner CV joint with a larger diameter bolt pattern, it's about 10mm larger. 6 cylinder rear diffs will require larger diameter inner flanges for V8 axles - if they even fit? I'm not sure about 4 speed gearboxes but with the 5 speed 722.6 boxes the rear diff final drive ratio must match the gearbox's original final drive ratio otherwise it is registered as slip and drive will not engage. On the V8 and AMG drivetrains all the mating flanges are 'beefed-up'. Prop-shaft engine and diff couplings start off on 6 cylinders with 100mm PCD and go upto 110mm on V8s and then from the standard 3 to 4 finger 110mm PCD couplings on AMG models.

 

[mattc]

I cant remember if Ian Walker did any axle shaft swaps when he put the turbos on Mattc's 124 Coupe. Certainly it was considered.

None of that was changed at the time though I keep having thoughts about a Quaife diff....I will watch what Billy does with interest.

 

[BillyW124]

Thanks for the input so far all,

It's a bit of a mine field! I think there's too much risk with ending up with wrong parts and potentially more issues trying to modify an existing set up unless there's one definitive solution to a 320 alternative.

I'm going to settle with the open 320 set up so we're all even Stevens up front and back there. Peace of mind springs to mind.

Im open to suggestions though.

 

[mattc]

i think you are right Billy; get back to a know quantity before then trying to change everything...obviously this will cost more but you need to get the thing up and running first

 

[BillyW124]

Once its in Matt, its not comming back out! So it now or never

The 320 diff is going to be reconditioned as well as all the axle shafts. The price for one shaft from MB is a whopping £616 and I'll need to replace in pairs. Even I had to say no to that. Oddly the 220 shaft is 100 quid more?

I've got a sandblasted black shiney subframe with sportline mounts and diff mounts installed on it already sitting around so I'm 5% there!

 

[d w124]

Billy:I`ve an E36 diff somewhere,let me know if it`s any good
PS:gutted for you mate

 

[BillyW124]

Billy:I`ve an E36 diff somewhere,let me know if it`s any good
PS:gutted for you mate

Have you got the part number for it to hand? If not you able to dig it out and check please?

 

[WDB124066]

CVJ Axles - Remanufactured Axles & Power Racks

http://www.cvjaxles.com/MercedesBenz.php

These guys know Mercs well!!

Here's the best part,

Warranty
CVJ warrants its Mercedes Benz axles to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period three years.

That's THREE times better than what you get out of MB for new ones.

 

[V12]

MB parts have a 2 yr warranty, no?

 

[kth286]

Billy, you may want to check out the following:

The diff size (pumkin) is the bigger size on the 320 vehicles, therefore
you need to check that the spacing of the diff mounts within the subframe
are the same as the 220 coupe.

Otherwise the subframes might be different for each car; and therefore the
subframe you have may not be the correct one. Check part numbers etc.

 

[V12]

We always sold the subframes as one size fits all, from the E200 to the E36. Never had any come back.

 

[BillyW124]

CVJ Axles - Remanufactured Axles & Power Racks

CVJ Axles - Remanufactured Axles & Power Racks

These guys know Mercs well!!

Here's the best part,

Warranty
CVJ warrants its Mercedes Benz axles to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period three years.

That's THREE times better than what you get out of MB for new ones.

cheers for that W, i have enquired.

Billy, you may want to check out the following:

The diff size (pumkin) is the bigger size on the 320 vehicles, therefore
you need to check that the spacing of the diff mounts within the subframe
are the same as the 220 coupe.

Otherwise the subframes might be different for each car; and therefore the
subframe you have may not be the correct one. Check part numbers etc.

True that they are bigger, but subframes are all the same, except for the 500E.