C350e owners club

[Deleted member 126969]

Welcome @eKatie

Interesting to see an actual dealer price for a new battery. I guess the £9k difference in value is probably what they would pay for a new battery rather than the £13k retail.

I’ve seen reference to this 70% figure before but never really understood the significance of it...now we know!

I think we knew that the warranty doesn’t cover ‘wear & tear’, only failure, but it still hurts.

Ultimately, I don’t think MB are ‘good actors’ like say Toyota/Lexus. My experience is that they have zero regard for customers. They seem to have embraced the sterotypical arrogance attributed to Germans. Ironically, the germans I know are nothing like that.

I know I regret my buying decision, I’m sorry yours has turned out this way too. I now consider my car to be worthless and will run it until it fails, then probably scrap it.

In your situation, I’d probably just carry on using the car, or perhaps sell it through a non-dealer outlet.

 

[MercPassion]

Hi all, I'm new here and have been reading almost every post regarding C350e, great forum!

Chris-S, I have been sharing many thoughts with you when reading your posts. I bought my car 2017 (C350e, 2016, used). The electric range was my concern nearly already after purchasing the car and already then I got the HV battery capacity tested with MB dearler. Then it was ok. Now - 3 years later, I felt I needed to get the capacity tested again (5 years old and 110000km mileage). I have had thoughts of buying a new E- or C-model so the battery capacity test was a good idea - I thought. How wrong I was.

Test showed the capacity 69,3% which is 0,7% under MB approved capacity (70%). MB says if the capacity is under 70%, the HV battery needs to be replaced with a new one. A new hybrid battery would cost 14.000-15.000€ (£13.000) for me. The MB Dealership Service dept however told me it's completely normal for this battery to lose its capacity as it was. No malfunction of HV battery was found, the battery and the car is working perfectly. However, MB Service did ask MB about the battery issue, but MB was not interested to even look at the issue, not even as a goodwill gesture. Even the warranty of HV battery would not cover the normal wear, I was told. That do not many car buyers realize or even know.
Well, I went to the same MB Dealer, Sales department, and asked for a quote for my C350e if buying a new car from them. They could of course see in their service records that the HV battery capacity had been tested lately and I was told that due to the capacity under 70%, the value of my car is now a lot less than expected, appr. £13.000 (normally the value would be around £24.000). It really hit me hard, the car was working perfectly in all ways. All the service/maintenance had been carried out in MB dealership. In my eyes, the car was now treated like worthless. And all for just 0,7% capacity difference. So, I should have not got tested it in the first place.
If Mercedes has given the HV battery a capacity limit of 70%, my question is, what is the capacity percentage the car stops totally working?? I think it will be sooner than expected.

Many of older MB C350e owners are considering just enjoying the car as long as possible. I used to think the same way - until now. For a peace of mind, I really think it would be a good idea to move forward to another car.
If someone is considering buying an used C350e, I would really recommend to ask for the HV battery capacity test result before buying the potential car. But my honest opinion is: go and look for some other car (no Plug-In). It's the same story with many other Plug-In cars, a few years old ones. I don't believe these cars will have a long life.

Oh,my,my!!!

 

[eKatie]

Thanks for sharing my pain . I have to say the car C350e has been very reliable, fantastic to drive, so beautiful, and has had not serious malfunctions or worries. The car is extremely comfortable and enjoyable in every way. I actually have not regret the purchase, but I think we first C350e model buyers have been paying a big price for the joy. Yes in this context, I would also trust more in Toyota/Lexus.

 

[DubMerc]

Hi eKatie, welcome to the forum.

Your post is very interesting and I am shocked that you have been quoted 14-15k euro for a replacement battery. Did you consider getting a quote from another MB dealer?

I don't know what trade in and resale values are where you are based but based on Irish and UK values the 24k pounds seems high on the age and mileage of your car (not saying that it is old or kms as high). Looking at sale values in Ireland it would be worth about 18k-19k euro (with no identified battery issues). Could that have been an exaggeration by MB?

Also, you say to got the battery tested shortly after purchase. What percentage did it show then?

 

[eKatie]

Thank you all, it’s nice to be in the forum and share the thoughts with you.

Yes the quoted battery price 14.000-15.000€ is the retail price. But even if I got the better price from the dealer, I think it would not be worth the battery change for a 5 years old car.

The sales price for used C350e car (2016-2017) with 100.000-150.000km mileage is here between 26.000-33.000€ in non-dealer outlets. Here in Finland we have extremely high car prices, much higher than in many other European countries. Local MB dealers do not sell these older C350e cars, they forward them all to non-dealer outlets.

The earlier test for the HV battery capacity was done in 2017 and the percentage was 80-90%, I can't remember exactly without checking my records, but I remember it showing 86%...

 

[DubMerc]

Thanks eKatie.

You are right, even if it was half of that amount it wouldn't make sense to change the battery.

It sounds like Finland is a good place to buy a new car in that it doesn't have the eye watering depreciation of car values that many other countries have.

The degradation rate of the battery is puzzling. Assuming it was 100% when it left the factory (or should have been), it degraded by about 14% in the first year and then by about 16% in the following 4 years. Would it be fair to say that it was unlikely to ever have been at or close to 100%? If so, this makes their magical 70% threshold figure a bit of a joke.

 

[MercPassion]

Thank you all, it’s nice to be in the forum and share the thoughts with you.

Yes the quoted battery price 14.000-15.000€ is the retail price. But even if I got the better price from the dealer, I think it would not be worth the battery change for a 5 years old car.

The sales price for used C350e car (2016-2017) with 100.000-150.000km mileage is here between 26.000-33.000€ in non-dealer outlets. Here in Finland we have extremely high car prices, much higher than in many other European countries. Local MB dealers do not sell these older C350e cars, they forward them all to non-dealer outlets.

The earlier test for the HV battery capacity was done in 2017 and the percentage was 80-90%, I can't remember exactly without checking my records, but I remember it showing 86%...

To trade in my C350e 66 plate 48k Auto-trader checker gave me £14k so the £13K MB offered you for your 5yr old 100k was very generous. I don’t know whether my battery was ever checked as I bought it second hand 1year ago but whenever I charge it shows 100% with 14 electric miles, no problems with it so far.

 

[seekay]

Hi all, I'm new here and have been reading almost every post regarding C350e, great forum!

Chris-S, I have been sharing many thoughts with you when reading your posts. I bought my car 2017 (C350e, 2016, used). The electric range was my concern nearly already after purchasing the car and already then I got the HV battery capacity tested with MB dearler. Then it was ok. Now - 3 years later, I felt I needed to get the capacity tested again (5 years old and 110000km mileage). I have had thoughts of buying a new E- or C-model so the battery capacity test was a good idea - I thought. How wrong I was.

Test showed the capacity 69,3% which is 0,7% under MB approved capacity (70%). MB says if the capacity is under 70%, the HV battery needs to be replaced with a new one. A new hybrid battery would cost 14.000-15.000€ (£13.000) for me. The MB Dealership Service dept however told me it's completely normal for this battery to lose its capacity as it was. No malfunction of HV battery was found, the battery and the car is working perfectly. However, MB Service did ask MB about the battery issue, but MB was not interested to even look at the issue, not even as a goodwill gesture. Even the warranty of HV battery would not cover the normal wear, I was told. That do not many car buyers realize or even know.
Well, I went to the same MB Dealer, Sales department, and asked for a quote for my C350e if buying a new car from them. They could of course see in their service records that the HV battery capacity had been tested lately and I was told that due to the capacity under 70%, the value of my car is now a lot less than expected, appr. £13.000 (normally the value would be around £24.000). It really hit me hard, the car was working perfectly in all ways. All the service/maintenance had been carried out in MB dealership. In my eyes, the car was now treated like worthless. And all for just 0,7% capacity difference. So, I should have not got tested it in the first place.
If Mercedes has given the HV battery a capacity limit of 70%, my question is, what is the capacity percentage the car stops totally working?? I think it will be sooner than expected.

Many of older MB C350e owners are considering just enjoying the car as long as possible. I used to think the same way - until now. For a peace of mind, I really think it would be a good idea to move forward to another car.
If someone is considering buying an used C350e, I would really recommend to ask for the HV battery capacity test result before buying the potential car. But my honest opinion is: go and look for some other car (no Plug-In). It's the same story with many other Plug-In cars, a few years old ones. I don't believe these cars will have a long life.

Welcome to the forum @eKatie,
Wow, this is definitely not the experience we expect when getting these beauties...especially if we buy them from the used market. Did you notice this battery degradation in the electric range as well? I bought my car last August with 79k miles (~127k km), registered in 2017 January. Never checked the battery capacity, in summer it was able to do 11-12 miles so I wasn’t really worried as the majority had similar results. I had a few very bad experience not too long ago, the starter motor died again in October and the 12V starter battery also had to be replaced. Now I’m concerned again about the cars future but don’t think I’ll ever test the HV battery capacity in case if the result would upset me.

 

[MercPassion]

Thanks for sharing my pain . I have to say the car C350e has been very reliable, fantastic to drive, so beautiful, and has had not serious malfunctions or worries. The car is extremely comfortable and enjoyable in every way. I actually have not regret the purchase, but I think we first C350e model buyers have been paying a big price for the joy. Yes in this context, I would also trust more in Toyota/Lexus.

Great sympathies for your misfortunes on this C350e, just out of interest in the five years you have owned this car did you experience any problems with the Starter motor as I hear from this forum that this seems to be a common problem?

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I should say, I was aware that early adopters are rarely rewarded for their bravery, and as I do so few miles even in normal circumstances, my hope was that the car will keep working without issue until it's time for it to go, or rather, until seeing it go isn't too painful. Basically, 10 years of use. At my usual mileage, probably about 30k miles.

What I didn't expect was the MB attitude, which is in large part responsible for my discomfort with the purchase.

I'm just over 4 years in now and according to my admittedly rough & ready calculations, have lost very little battery capacity so far, BUT at less than 9000 miles, I should bloody hope so!!

Depreciation was way worse than I expected though.

 

[seekay]

Like on mobile phones, tablets and proper EVs, is it worth to keep the battery charge level between 20-80% and not charge above 80? This is a golden rule (advice) for EVs in order to keep the battery in good shape on the long run, some cars even have battery saving option in their menu which only let to charge up to 80%. This car already has a very small battery with a very short range, if I keep it between 20-80% the usable range will be a joke...

 

[eKatie]

Thank you all once again for welcoming me and sympathies. The car prices (new ones and used ones) are way too high here in Finland and I've now learned that you have so much more reasonable prices in UK. But after all, the depreciation problem is probably the same pain for the owner.
Seekay, yes I did notice battery degradation in the electric range as well. It happened slowly of course, as expected and not dramatically. The car has been working perfectly. I was only too curious (and stupid enough ) to get the capacity tested. I regret it and I would say the capacity testing is not for any use if you own the car, as said it might only upset the owner. It only affected my mind, not my car
JosephPaul, haven't experienced any 12V starter battery problems at all. I have also understood that it might be a common problem.
As Chris-S said we early adopters are rarely rewarded for the bravery, well said! Yes when purchasing the car I was aware something surprising could come up... And I agree that MB attitude is the only discomfort I feel, too. But the car itself is very easy to fall in love with, I have truly enjoyed every mile driven. Chris-S, I am so happy to hear your car have not lost much battery capacity. I hope and believe you will have many fantastic years together.

 

[DubMerc]

Like on mobile phones, tablets and proper EVs, is it worth to keep the battery charge level between 20-80% and not charge above 80? This is a golden rule (advice) for EVs in order to keep the battery in good shape on the long run, some cars even have battery saving option in their menu which only let to charge up to 80%. This car already has a very small battery with a very short range, if I keep it between 20-80% the usable range will be a joke...

I haven't heard that advice about keeping the battery in an EV between 20-80%. From what I have read and seen from ev reviews is that charging to 80% and not letting the battery go below 20% is best when you are stopped for charging during a long journey. The reason for this is that the bottom and top 20% are the slowest to charge. So to avoid spending too much time coffee drinking when your car is charging at a service station off the motorway, you should stop to charge before it goes below 20% and unplug at 80% as charging gets much slower for the final 20%. This is not something we need to consider in our cars!
I think it would be difficult in the 350e to keep the battery between 20% and 80%.
Having thought about it a little more, maybe battery protection is the reason it takes much longer to charge top and bottom 20% in an EV.

 

[dasachmo]

Hi everyone, just wanted to ask about when starting the car. Sometimes mine will start in comfort and hybrid in electric, but sometimes the engine just kicks in. It normally can change into Eco and EMODE, but ive tried the last two times and it wont change to that from the start. Admittedly this was at night so its really cold but when i go into Eco mode and press battery modes - the EMODE is greyed out (battery is at 100%). Trying to use the car in electric only for short trips as its more fun but do you have to start driving before you can change it over to EMODE?

 

[DubMerc]

Hi everyone, just wanted to ask about when starting the car. Sometimes mine will start in comfort and hybrid in electric, but sometimes the engine just kicks in. It normally can change into Eco and EMODE, but ive tried the last two times and it wont change to that from the start. Admittedly this was at night so its really cold but when i go into Eco mode and press battery modes - the EMODE is greyed out (battery is at 100%). Trying to use the car in electric only for short trips as its more fun but do you have to start driving before you can change it over to EMODE?

I have experienced the same and it was on very cold mornings. As far as I understand, the engine comes on so that it can warm itself up rather than starting cold when the EV battery might run out and the car is for example travelling at 60mph.

 

[raspy]

Like on mobile phones, tablets and proper EVs, is it worth to keep the battery charge level between 20-80% and not charge above 80? This is a golden rule (advice) for EVs in order to keep the battery in good shape on the long run, some cars even have battery saving option in their menu which only let to charge up to 80%. This car already has a very small battery with a very short range, if I keep it between 20-80% the usable range will be a joke...

@seekay I don't think that advice is suited to PHEVs like the C350e, especially since the battery is relatively small. It's normally suggested to reduce the chance of battery degradation over time for large capacity EVs. I've always charged mine to 100% and when driving in e-mode, it will drop below 10% and my car is now over 5 years old and I still have the same range when the car is fully charged.

 

[Deleted member 126969]

I think(!) that the BMS keeps buffers top and bottom to prevent 0% and 100% situations.

 

[raspy]

I think(!) that the BMS keeps buffers top and bottom to prevent 0% and 100% situations.

@Chris-S Yes that's what I meant but I didn't know the technical description thanks for explaining!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Can anyone recommend a good used car review for a 2015/16 C350e ?

I'm being nagged to consider an estate later this year. TBH the W222 is more my thing, but I'm being to consider alternatives.

 

[DubMerc]

Hi Mike, is it something like this you are looking for?

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