C63 estate q's

[developer]

Just to add - you can have a Quaffe LS diff fitted by MSL, so if the right car came along but without the LSD, it's not a problem.

 

[Simon_M]

hi if you check the rev limit is the same for both!

What? When did I say the rev limit was different?

OP - some people are spouting some right shyate on this thread and the info being given to you is wrong.

Search as PPP vs PP vs Standard is often discussed or look for Mercedes press releases.

S

 

[The _Don]

PPP cars don't have different internals they are all the same apart from 507 and Black Series. D

Yet more incorrect information from the above member -

With Mercedes’ 6.2-liter V8 making as much as 518-hp in car’s like the S63, the same engine in the performance-oriented C63 makes “just” 451-hp. There are numerous reasons for this, but it does seem like those who pony-up for an AMG-spec C-Class are getting the shaft. In an attempt to remedy this Mercedes is now offering a “Performance Package Plus,” which pumps up output to 487-hp, just 13 shy of the C-Class DTM race car.

Torque is rated at 442 ft-lbs. Mercedes says this new package will help shave a tenth of a second off the car’s 0-62 mph time, bringing it down to 4.4 seconds. The improvements were made thanks to the use of several parts from the Mercedes SLS, including forged pistons, con rods and a new lightweight crankshaft, combined with a new engine program.

Mercedes says the lighter engine components also help to make the V8 more responsive. Other modifications in the package include a carbon fiber rear spoiler, carbon ceramic brakes, a new AMG steering wheel and Alcantara seats (yummy!).

Mercedes will offer the Performance Package Plus on both the C63 sedan and wagon, but there is no word if the German automaker will bring this new kit to the U.S.

 

[C36fan]

What? When did I say the rev limit was different? OP - some people are spouting some right shyate on this thread and the info being given to you is wrong. Search as PPP vs PP vs Standard is often discussed or look for Mercedes press releases. S

so you know more than the mercedes parts catalog ??

 

[C36fan]

Wrong - With Mercedes’ 6.2-liter V8 making as much as 518-hp in car’s like the S63, the same engine in the performance-oriented C63 makes “just” 451-hp. There are numerous reasons for this, but it does seem like those who pony-up for an AMG-spec C-Class are getting the shaft. In an attempt to remedy this Mercedes is now offering a “Performance Package Plus,” which pumps up output to 487-hp, just 13 shy of the C-Class DTM race car. Torque is rated at 442 ft-lbs. Mercedes says this new package will help shave a tenth of a second off the car’s 0-62 mph time, bringing it down to 4.4 seconds. The improvements were made thanks to the use of several parts from the Mercedes SLS, including forged pistons, con rods and a new lightweight crankshaft, combined with a new engine program. Mercedes says the lighter engine components also help to make the V8 more responsive. Other modifications in the package include a carbon fiber rear spoiler, carbon ceramic brakes, a new AMG steering wheel and Alcantara seats (yummy!). Mercedes will offer the Performance Package Plus on both the C63 sedan and wagon, but there is no word if the German automaker will bring this new kit to the U.S.

Suk is not what the parts catalog says about the internals the part numbers they are the same !

 

[Simon_M]

Strangely enough I don't study the parts catalogue - do you read the phone book too?

Official press release:



PRESS RELEASE


Affalterbach – Enhanced driving dynamics ex factory for the Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG: the new Performance Package Plus is an attractive optional extra that is designed to appeal to the power-hungry sports driver. The Performance Package Plus increases output by 22 kW/30 hp to 358 kW/487 hp. As a result, the C-Class approaches the level of performance offered by C-Class DTM vehicles, which deliver 377 kW/500 hp. The Performance Package Plus is available for the saloon and estate models and includes an AMG high-performance braking system featuring composite technology on the front axle, a carbon fibre spoiler lip (saloon) and an AMG performance steering wheel in nappa leather/Alcantara.

With the Performance Package Plus, the C 63 AMG accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h in 4.4 seconds and 0 to 200 km/h in 13.9 seconds. This beats the 336 kW/457 hp standard model by up to 1.2 seconds (0–100 km/h: 4.5 seconds; 0–200 km/h: 15.2 seconds). The top speed is 250 km/h (electronically limited).

The improvement in power output to 358 kW/487 hp is due to the AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine's modified engine compartment: the forged pistons adopted from the new SLS AMG super sports car together with new connecting rods and a lightweight crankshaft translate into a weight saving of three kilograms. Reduced inertia boosts the agility and responsiveness of the uprated V8 engine, which is recognisable from the variable intake manifold painted in titanium grey. New engine management completes the powertrain measures in the Performance Package Plus for the C 63 AMG.

Key data at a glance:


Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG with Performance Package Plus

Cylinder arrangement - V8

Cylinder angle - 90°

Valves per cylinder - 4

Displacement - 6208 cc

Bore x stroke - 102.2 x 94.6 mm

Compression ratio - 11.3:1

Output - 358 kW/487 hp at 6800 rpm

Max. torque - 600 Nm at 5000 rpm

Maximum engine speed - 7200 rpm

Engine weight (dry) - 196 kg

Fuel consumption NEDC combined - 13.4 (13.6) l/100 km

CO2 emissions - 318 (323) g/km

Acceleration 0–100 km/h - 4.4 (4.5) s

Top speed - 250 km/h*

*electronically limited; figures in brackets: estate model

AMG high-performance braking system featuring composite technology

The Performance Package Plus braking system has been adapted to the enhanced driving dynamics. A new AMG high-performance braking system ensures greater stability when driving dynamically, with compound brake discs on the front axle and red painted brake callipers all round showing the AMG logo. The brake discs feature a composite design and are connected to an aluminium bowl to avoid temperature peaks. The connection between the disc and bowl is new: instead of the usual screw connection, the aluminium bowl is now connected to the brake disc via cast-in arms. The advantage is more homogenous temperature distribution on the brake disc.

A further identifying feature of the Performance Package Plus is the AMG carbon fibre spoiler lip on the boot lid (saloon). In the interior, the AMG performance steering wheel in nappa leather with a grip area trimmed in Alcantara feels good, while at the same time making a striking visual impact.

The new AMG Performance Package Plus is available for C 63 AMG saloon and estate models and can be ordered now. The sales price is €7080.50 or €646 (saloon/estate; prices include 19% VAT) with the market launch taking place in December 2009.

Extended appointments in black designo leather

New black designo leather as an optional extra will enhance the interior even further and covers the upper section of the dashboard, the upper door trim and the armrest on the centre console. This high-quality feature is available in conjunction with nappa leather appointments for €2856 (price includes 19% VAT).

The internationally successful C 63 AMG model

The C 63 AMG is one of the most popular vehicles in the Mercedes-AMG model range. In 2008, 8100 units of this high-performance car were sold worldwide. The C 63 AMG demonstrates its sports credentials in international motorsport as well as on the road. For example, the C 63 AMG estate is used as the official F1™ medical car and the C 63 AMG saloon acts as a safety car in the DTM German Touring Car Masters.

 

[The _Don]

The PPP cars engines are also 3kg lighter due to upgraded internals.

 

[C36fan]

Strangely enough I don't study the parts catalogue - do you read the phone book too? Official press release: PRESS RELEASE Affalterbach – Enhanced driving dynamics ex factory for the Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG: the new Performance Package Plus is an attractive optional extra that is designed to appeal to the power-hungry sports driver. The Performance Package Plus increases output by 22 kW/30 hp to 358 kW/487 hp. As a result, the C-Class approaches the level of performance offered by C-Class DTM vehicles, which deliver 377 kW/500 hp. The Performance Package Plus is available for the saloon and estate models and includes an AMG high-performance braking system featuring composite technology on the front axle, a carbon fibre spoiler lip (saloon) and an AMG performance steering wheel in nappa leather/Alcantara. With the Performance Package Plus, the C 63 AMG accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h in 4.4 seconds and 0 to 200 km/h in 13.9 seconds. This beats the 336 kW/457 hp standard model by up to 1.2 seconds (0–100 km/h: 4.5 seconds; 0–200 km/h: 15.2 seconds). The top speed is 250 km/h (electronically limited). The improvement in power output to 358 kW/487 hp is due to the AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine's modified engine compartment: the forged pistons adopted from the new SLS AMG super sports car together with new connecting rods and a lightweight crankshaft translate into a weight saving of three kilograms. Reduced inertia boosts the agility and responsiveness of the uprated V8 engine, which is recognisable from the variable intake manifold painted in titanium grey. New engine management completes the powertrain measures in the Performance Package Plus for the C 63 AMG. Key data at a glance: Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG with Performance Package Plus Cylinder arrangement - V8 Cylinder angle - 90° Valves per cylinder - 4 Displacement - 6208 cc Bore x stroke - 102.2 x 94.6 mm Compression ratio - 11.3:1 Output - 358 kW/487 hp at 6800 rpm Max. torque - 600 Nm at 5000 rpm Maximum engine speed - 7200 rpm Engine weight (dry) - 196 kg Fuel consumption NEDC combined - 13.4 (13.6) l/100 km CO2 emissions - 318 (323) g/km Acceleration 0–100 km/h - 4.4 (4.5) s Top speed - 250 km/h* *electronically limited; figures in brackets: estate model AMG high-performance braking system featuring composite technology The Performance Package Plus braking system has been adapted to the enhanced driving dynamics. A new AMG high-performance braking system ensures greater stability when driving dynamically, with compound brake discs on the front axle and red painted brake callipers all round showing the AMG logo. The brake discs feature a composite design and are connected to an aluminium bowl to avoid temperature peaks. The connection between the disc and bowl is new: instead of the usual screw connection, the aluminium bowl is now connected to the brake disc via cast-in arms. The advantage is more homogenous temperature distribution on the brake disc. A further identifying feature of the Performance Package Plus is the AMG carbon fibre spoiler lip on the boot lid (saloon). In the interior, the AMG performance steering wheel in nappa leather with a grip area trimmed in Alcantara feels good, while at the same time making a striking visual impact. The new AMG Performance Package Plus is available for C 63 AMG saloon and estate models and can be ordered now. The sales price is €7080.50 or €646 (saloon/estate; prices include 19% VAT) with the market launch taking place in December 2009. Extended appointments in black designo leather New black designo leather as an optional extra will enhance the interior even further and covers the upper section of the dashboard, the upper door trim and the armrest on the centre console. This high-quality feature is available in conjunction with nappa leather appointments for €2856 (price includes 19% VAT). The internationally successful C 63 AMG model The C 63 AMG is one of the most popular vehicles in the Mercedes-AMG model range. In 2008, 8100 units of this high-performance car were sold worldwide. The C 63 AMG demonstrates its sports credentials in international motorsport as well as on the road. For example, the C 63 AMG estate is used as the official F1™ medical car and the C 63 AMG saloon acts as a safety car in the DTM German Touring Car Masters.

you can read as much as you want the parts catalog is the one says what parts go where!

 

[Monky]

Key visual difference on facelift versus non facelift is the interior. Old looking and plain with awful pop up COMAND versus much nicer!
Good luck.

And this, facelift nicer inside but older one is not exactly horrible

Well thanks all




Thanks for spending the time to write all that up.

That's good to know that the cheaper discs can be bought if need be.

I won't be driving on track but will stretch its legs when conditions allow.

Obviously I initially wanted the newest car I could afford within budget. Sounds like you got a good buy at 30 for a facelift? Was it an auction car?
The 2 cars I've seen on 11plates look to be pre facelift so maybe they are asking a little too much. I'm in no rush and maybe I shouldn't be to hung up by the pp but the idea of an LSD makes plenty of sense.

So a non PP car with a remap might be a quicker car ? As gains on a remap for a PP car won't be the same as a non PP car I pressume.

Off for more searching

No worries bud, I'm quite thorough when I buy cars so did the research like you are doing. Don't worry about the disks, for 99.9% of applications pointless, and not much difference, if they were carbon or ceramic for 2k then fair play and awesome, but that price for a 2 piece disk is pure joke material, they should be a few hundred more not a few thousand

1 piece on the left, 2 piece on the right:

I bought mine from a private guy, was just very polite and we got on really well so he did me a super deal, you can buy mine if you want when I come to sell, never raced or rallied

Personally I wouldn't worry about PPP on a pre facelift, I drover one pre facelift and the suspension was bloody stiff, okay on smooth roads, in the UK, hmmmm. Mine is non PPP facelift and suspension on 19" is still pretty damn harsh, rattles the interior, but just turn music up lol.

I would concentrate on finding a good solid car regardless of spec, for me I just wanted Harmon Kardon and only looked at these as wasn't a fan of the stock stereo. You can remap with something like Eurocharged's new V5 map and get massive gains over PPP. Then add a quaife, sorted. The alcantara wheel wears badly as well but PPP is still a cool kit to have regardless.

One thing to remember, these cars are hard to sell, so dealers will be keen to sell them, don't be afraid to put in a low offer, they can only say no, obviously don't take the biscuit. If looking at pre-facelift 11 plates, try and find a post facelift and see if you can get it close, otherwise buy an older one with decent miles and stick a plate on it Just make sure well looked after etc, lack of stone chips always a good sign unless resprayed. Mine had average 21MPG on it and old chap had never reset the MPG from new, this meant he had barely accelerated, and lived in a city

Just to add - you can have a Quaffe LS diff fitted by MSL, so if the right car came along but without the LSD, it's not a problem.

As above, stock LSD isn't very aggressive but does the job and makes the world of difference if you know how to drive, otherwise you do one wheel wheelspins everywhere Although even with the open diff you can still do massive burnouts due to power/torque :bannana:

If I keep my car, I will be getting a Quaife 100%, on the track it sucks, but you can still do drifts Check out my videos for proof, although it's more sketchy without a diff as power is all over the place

[YOUTUBE]4GuO0UOUGo8[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]pQNUn3aiReU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Simon_M]

you can read as much as you want the parts catalog is the one says what parts go where!

You are like a broken record, I give in, obviously you are 100% correct because you read the parts catalogue in Halfords one afternoon. There is no difference, they paint it darker grey, say they have changed a few bits when in fact they have not and issue a press release to the world saying it is an upgraded engine.

This thread is a mess with lots of inaccurate information - stiffer suspension, 2 piece discs. All cobblers. PM The Don and ask for a definitive answer or keep chasing your tail on this thread.

That pic is not C63 composite discs - they look like 2piece from a CLK63 or PP C63.

S

 

[C36fan]

You are like a broken record, I give in, obviously you are 100% correct because you read the parts catalogue in Halfords one afternoon. There is no difference, they paint it darker grey, say they have changed a few bits when in fact they have not and issue a press release to the world saying it is an upgraded engine. This thread is a mess with lots of inaccurate information - stiffer suspension, 2 piece discs. All cobblers. PM The Don and ask for a definitive answer or keep chasing your tail on this thread. That pic is not C63 composite discs - they look like 2piece from a CLK63 or PP C63. S

really the parts catalog I used is the same the stores man at mb main dealer uses to supply the parts for the costumers!!
But if you like to make jokes about someone you don't even know is up to you!!and again I could be wrong I'm only saying what read at the catalog and just for let you know I'm a mechanic and I've worked for mercedes years ago !

 

[developer]

Come on guys - this is one heated V8 debate .

Get the best example that fits your budget and whether PP, PPP, or plain old vanilla, I'm sure you'll love it.

 

[Monky]

Oh **** I forgot about performance package plus your right it does have SLS internals according to press release and composite brakes I guess when I first looked at all the info back when the C63 came out you only had the option of performance pack which does only have 2 piece disks as per that picture. The original performance pack (P30) on the early cars did have stiffer suspension, and on later cars (P31) this was an option right?

Anyhow OP you get the picture hopefully still some decent info for you, I wouldn't worry about PP too much in all honesty, if it's got it great, if not you can add bits. Most important parts you can take from this all is don't overpay on a pre-facelift, try and steal a facelift, or grab a well looked after older bargain.

I take mine on track days and manage fine, just needs a ****** LSD, this should be standard though Mercedes tut tut :bannana: Worst case get a quaife, re-map it and hit the loud peddle Hell in stock form it's still amazing 457bhp is hardly not enough hehe. If you get brake fade on the stock disks on the road or before hitting limp mode I will shake your hand

 

[RWDpetrol]

Get a model that is easy to sell on, just in case you dont like it - I didn't like mine.

How many estate buyers are bothered about the 'extra' performance and braking over a standard car? Focus on mileage, condition, colour, originality etc.

 

[Simon_M]

I didn't like mine.

Crazy Fool!

 

[def90cars]

Dear OP.... lots of good info here and also lots of false.

Buy the one you like the best.

 

[Lee C63]

Don't get hung up on performance pack etc.
A simple re-map will give you approximately 520bhp.
As mentioned earlier a quaife or wavetrac diff can be fitted....which are much better than the OEM one.
You do get a bit of extra kudos with the pp cars but not many people would notice the difference unless they were an enthusiast.

It's all down to what suits you and what you want and what you are prepared to pay

 

[RWDpetrol]

Crazy Fool!

Buy the one you like the best.

I feel I should back up my comment and provide some useful advice:

Someone who wants a C63 ESTATE would not buy it for the engine alone, so that aside here is what else you (the OP not all other existing AMG owners) should think about...it's a C Class at the end of the day...things I didn't like:

- limited space especially rear seat legroom
- too much wheelspin at junctions (mine didn't have LSD)
- poor PDC system
- poor COMAND system especially the traffic updates and integration with phone address book
- uneven tyre wear resulting in road noise (and I can live with 5k miles per rear set)
- clunks, oil seal leaks etc ie general reliability... poor for a 22k mile 3 year old when I bought it from MB
- gearbox slow to engage between R, N, D ie when in hurry to do a 3 point turn
- gearbox often incorrectly disallows some/multiple gear changes
- Xenons don't adjust level quickly up/down ramps
- squeaky folding wing mirrors
- squeaky rear brakes
- squeaky sunroof
- cheap quality interior (pre facelift)
- poor fuel tank range (not consumption)
- bad isofix and can't deactivate passenger airbag
- skippy handling on bumpy roads

You can fix some of the above but it will keep you busy with time and spending.

So my advice would be to seriously think about an E63 estate or look at a coupe as a toy. As a single everyday car, my estate didn't work for me. And it's just my opinion based on 11 months ownership. I don't part with £32k to expect mediocrity.

Did I mention the sound? Unbeatable.

 

[Simon_M]

Interesting opinion, I found mine great as an everyday car that I could also track, take stuff to the dump and tour Europe in.

Low rent interior in the pre-facelift? Definitely.

OP - take your time and you will end up with a great car whatever model it is.

 

[C36fan]

I feel I should back up my comment and provide some useful advice: Someone who wants a C63 ESTATE would not buy it for the engine alone, so that aside here is what else you (the OP not all other existing AMG owners) should think about...it's a C Class at the end of the day...things I didn't like: - limited space especially rear seat legroom - too much wheelspin at junctions (mine didn't have LSD) - poor PDC system - poor COMAND system especially the traffic updates and integration with phone address book - uneven tyre wear resulting in road noise (and I can live with 5k miles per rear set) - clunks, oil seal leaks etc ie general reliability... poor for a 22k mile 3 year old when I bought it from MB - gearbox slow to engage between R, N, D ie when in hurry to do a 3 point turn - gearbox often incorrectly disallows some/multiple gear changes - Xenons don't adjust level quickly up/down ramps - squeaky folding wing mirrors - squeaky rear brakes - squeaky sunroof - cheap quality interior (pre facelift) - poor fuel tank range (not consumption) - bad isofix and can't deactivate passenger airbag - skippy handling on bumpy roads You can fix some of the above but it will keep you busy with time and spending. So my advice would be to seriously think about an E63 estate or look at a coupe as a toy. As a single everyday car, my estate didn't work for me. And it's just my opinion based on 11 months ownership. I don't part with £32k to expect mediocrity. Did I mention the sound? Unbeatable.

you seam the only one with that opinion!!
Everyone who own a c63 here seams quite happy with it !