Cheap ride for EV users coming to an end ??

[Deleted member 126251]

We do very little mileage - would suit me.

Fuel and excise duty must be replaced with new tax, MPs say

The UK will be left with a £35bn "black hole" as motorists switch to electric cars, says Transport committee.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CoopsSA]

Anyone can see that it would need to change. The more you drive, the more you pay.

Be interesting how they address the statement of "drivers will pay the same or less" ?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

We do very little mileage - would suit me.

Fuel and excise duty must be replaced with new tax, MPs say

The UK will be left with a £35bn "black hole" as motorists switch to electric cars, says Transport committee.

www.bbc.co.uk

Would suit most vehicle owners, our 33 million cars in the UK only average 8k a year, and by far the majority are less than 8k because of high mileage "workers."

But it will hit those "workers" and cost of services hard, creating inflation. They're the ones actually creating the CO2, pollution and congestion.

And rural areas.

 

[A.J.]

I think everybody but a two year old new that was coming !!

 

[m80]

Don't EV's generally do low mileage anyway, largely due to their range issues I imagine.
So the tax would not be recovered unless the mileage charge is v significant.

Then as they still want to penalise the ICE this would be in addition to road tax, I guess.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Don't EV's generally do low mileage anyway, largely due to their range issues I imagine.
So the tax would not be recovered unless the mileage charge is v significant.

Then as they still want to penalise the ICE this would be in addition to road tax, I guess.

Going from ICE to EV, I’d assume that most drivers (you refer to) did not change their driving habits but purchased an EV because of them. In future, people who typically do more mileage will be switching to EV.

 

[davymead]

As said, an obvious move in taxation, but how would you levy that ?

 

[grober]

One thing that occurs to me is such a road pricing system can be infinitely variable. Whereas with the fuel tax there was essentially a fixed relationship between tax/price of fuel, MPG and how many miles you drive. With road pricing the prospect of variable rates is much easier to implement factors such as different roads having different prices, variable rates for the time of day you drive at, type of vehicle you drive etc etc resulting in a much more targeted taxation facility?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

One thing that occurs to me is such a road pricing system can be infinitely variable. Whereas with the fuel tax there was essentially a fixed relationship between tax/price of fuel, MPG and how many miles you drive. With road pricing the prospect of variable rates is much easier to implement factors such as different roads having different prices, variable rates for the time of day you drive at, type of vehicle you drive etc etc resulting in a much more targeted taxation facility?

It could potentially used to control congestion as well. Pay a higher rate at peak times (bit like electricity I suppose) etc.

 

[st13phil]

I think everybody but a two year old new that was coming !!

Quite. The Transport Select Committee's report is part of the "softening up" process.

When motor taxation represents 4% of the total tax take, and only 20% of it goes back into roads, anyone who thinks there isn't already a plan (and much of the required infrastructure in place) to introduce road charging and thus preserve the revenue stream is delusional.

One thing that occurs to me is such a road pricing system can be infinitely variable. Whereas with the fuel tax there was essentially a fixed relationship between tax/price of fuel, MPG and how many miles you drive. With road pricing the prospect of variable rates is much easier to implement factors such as different roads having different prices, variable rates for the time of day you drive at, type of vehicle you drive etc etc resulting in a much more targeted taxation facility?

Expect to see much capital made of "fairness" aspects of road charging over the coming months (and years?), as it's the obvious sell. What won't be trumpeted so loudly are the potential invasion of privacy aspects and, indeed, the potential to link such a system with other location tracking systems such as mobile telecoms and electronic payments.

 

[davymead]

The idea seems a good one, but it’s implementation cost is another thing altogether.

 

[ChipChop]

Expect to see much capital made of "fairness" aspects of road charging over the coming months (and years?), as it's the obvious sell. What won't be trumpeted so loudly are the potential invasion of privacy aspects and, indeed, the potential to link such a system with other location tracking systems such as mobile telecoms and electronic payments.

Or the emergence of a proto UK social credit system due to this technology.

 

[Bellow]

If road pricing is to prevail it could be done without any invasion of privacy or surveillance. Very simply, charge based on the mileage showing between MOT tests. Either retrospectively or upfront with an declared estimate of annual mileage and adjustment if necessary at the year's end (or some hybrid of the two - as would be necessary for a brand new vehicle in its first three years on the road) - as is is done with limited mileage insurance policies.
Brutal penalties for tampering with odometers and use the surveillance kit (eg, ANPR) to enforce MOT compliance - again with brutal consequences for evasion.
All that's lacking is congestion period targeting - a small price to pay for easier public acceptance when surveillance and privacy concerns are negated.

 

[Tonygw]

Not a bad idea to charge per mileage between MOT's but I do fear this would open up a massive opportunity for criminals to adjust mileage. Brutal penalties don't seem to be a deterrent to those types unfortunately.

Hopefully they could find a way to full proof the mileage recorded on a car so tampering wasn't possible. But criminals have a habit of finding a way. I would think its a fair system though, better than the current system we have.

 

[Tonye]

So you've bought an over priced EV that will be scrap in ten years, and there going to tax you as well,

 

[BTB 500]

If road pricing is to prevail it could be done without any invasion of privacy or surveillance. Very simply, charge based on the mileage showing between MOT tests. Either retrospectively or upfront with an declared estimate of annual mileage and adjustment if necessary at the year's end (or some hybrid of the two - as would be necessary for a brand new vehicle in its first three years on the road) - as is is done with limited mileage insurance policies.
Brutal penalties for tampering with odometers and use the surveillance kit (eg, ANPR) to enforce MOT compliance - again with brutal consequences for evasion.
All that's lacking is congestion period targeting - a small price to pay for easier public acceptance when surveillance and privacy concerns are negated.

You'd need a mechanism to charge/refund for miles covered since the last MOT when you sold the car though ... presumably an MOT station would need to inspect it at that point? And you'd have to do something similar for cars under 3 years old that don't have MOTs?

 

[Bellow]

You'd need a mechanism to charge/refund for miles covered since the last MOT when you sold the car though ... presumably an MOT station would need to inspect it at that point? And you'd have to do something similar for cars under 3 years old that don't have MOTs?

I covered the second point and the first wouldn't be difficult. (The new owner wouldn't want the mileage falsified in the sellers favour). For cars being scrapped - submit final mileage with V5 with optional official check (verification by party receiving vehicle?).

Rejection of such a simple scheme would raise suspicion as to why a government insisted on monitoring our travelling.

 

[fabes]

It will require a complicated and multi tier'd & time taxation model, potentially geographic with differing rates based on the nature of vehicles (so HGV's are not priced off the road for example) or even the purpose of the vehicle (delivery vans, emergency responders) facilitated through a multi year, multi billion pound IT investment.

Nothing which UKGov.uk has struggled to role out successfully at a modest cost and on time in the past.........

 

[Wearsthefoxhat]

It will require a complicated and multi tier'd & time taxation model, potentially geographic with differing rates based on the nature of vehicles (so HGV's are not priced off the road for example) or even the purpose of the vehicle (delivery vans, emergency responders) facilitated through a multi year, multi billion pound IT investment.

Nothing which UKGov.uk has struggled to role out successfully at a modest cost and on time in the past.........

Sounds like a job for an MP’ s mate…

 

[del320]

The proposal, on the face of it, looks simple and straightforward, but would surely transmogrify into another regressive tax regime.

The “poor” in their crappy little car pays the same as the Tesla or AMG owning plutocrat. Would there have to be a differentiation between high and low powered, or basic and luxury vehicles? Price bands, like council tax bands, would soon become irrelevant.

Can one differentiate between high speed for miles on open roads and motorways, and grinding along at 15 polluting miles per hour in congested urban traffic?

Can one differentiate the time of day when morning and evening rush hours impact much more than quieter periods, especially when many have limited choice as to when they have to travel?

What about those living in areas where public transport is non-existent, so no choice but to drive?

If the technology is there to factor in such variables (and, no doubt, many more) then what is the impact on the invasion of privacy? It would look like out and out tracking to me.

How about putting the lot into general taxation?

Ah! But I don’t have a car!

Well, I don’t have brats, but I still have to pay for education and policing…

Etcetera, etcetera…