Cheap ride for EV users coming to an end ??

[MikeInWimbledon]

Yes, but there's a limit to how much we can expand road capacity in urban areas, before we go into compulsory purchase and knocking down homes.

This is because the number of cars in the UK just keeps going up:

Giving cars more road space in cities will only provide a very temporary short term respite from traffic congestion. The problem will be back to how it was before within the decade, as more and more cars are added to our roads.

The mid term planning has to evolve around how to stop these cars from travelling into city centres, and not around how to keep building even wider roads.

The long term goal has to be reversing the trend of constant growth in the number of privately owned vehicles, especially given the steady population growth.

And, as far as urban areas are concerned, efficient and affordable public transport is the key to all of the above.

The Victorians understood that public transport is key to prosperity in cities, and started digging tunnels for trains under London's streets 150 years ago. Since them, we've lost the plot.

With new vehicle sales at their lowest in the UK since the 1960’s and their lowest in Europe since the early 1990’s, a change is under way.

 

[markjay]

With new vehicle sales at their lowest in the UK since the 1960’s and their lowest in Europe since the early 1990’s, a change is under way.

Let's hope it is.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

With new vehicle sales at their lowest in the UK since the 1960’s and their lowest in Europe since the early 1990’s, a change is under way.

Isn’t that because new car production is constrained by parts availability rather than a shift in attitudes towards buying and owning cars?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Isn’t that because new car production is constrained by parts availability rather than a shift in attitudes towards buying and owning cars?

That's the general public excuse, but we know, don't we, that Covid19 has also impacted slick running, and that the regulatory fines are such that the manufacturers have to focus their output on more expensive and more CO2 frugal models to make ends meet.

They "can't" simply make cheap CO2 inefficient petrol and diesel cars any more. It has to be EV and hybrid.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Or congestion can be decreased by expanding road capacity instead of (perversely) always trying to constrain it..

Already tried that with “smart” motorways......

 

[Deleted member 126251]

It will require a complicated and multi tier'd & time taxation model, potentially geographic with differing rates based on the nature of vehicles (so HGV's are not priced off the road for example) or even the purpose of the vehicle (delivery vans, emergency responders) facilitated through a multi year, multi billion pound IT investment.

Nothing which UKGov.uk has struggled to role out successfully at a modest cost and on time in the past.........

That is the problem, why should a person pay the same money to use the roads around a rural village (no congestion) as a guy in London pays.

 

[st13phil]

why should a person pay the same money to use the roads around a rural village (no congestion) as a guy in London pays.

I'm always a little suspicious of the arguments for charging to "reduce congestion".

There's an element of truth regarding emissions from ICE vehicles in congested environments, but for EV's that falls flat so what justification remains?

The reality is that congestion is by definition self-limiting. As journey times increase, a point is reached where non-essential use of the route reduces because people will simply not want to take longer and longer to undertake a journey. Essential use of the route will continue, but those users will also look for alternatives. IMO, charging to "reduce congestion" is a blatant lie.

 

[whitenemesis]

An interesting read..

Electric vehicles and air pollution: the claims and the facts - EPHA

What are the claims and the facts about the move to electric vehicles to tackle air pollution?

epha.org

 

[markjay]

That's the general public excuse, but we know, don't we, that Covid19 has also impacted slick running, and that the regulatory fines are such that the manufacturers have to focus their output on more expensive and more CO2 frugal models to make ends meet.

They "can't" simply make cheap CO2 inefficient petrol and diesel cars any more. It has to be EV and hybrid.

Sounds plausible. The US members on the IONIQ 5 forum I frequent are saying that in the US the IONIQ 5 sells at between $5,000 and $10,000 above MSRP due to short supply of new cars (in the US it's customary for car dealers to sell new cars with a meakup over list price when demand outstrips supply, apparently. That capitalism for you ). Also, here in the UK, the shortage of new cars drives up prices of second hand ones - Motorway.com are suggesting that Mrs. MJ's 16-reg Suzuki can be sold for £2,000 more than what we paid for it 3 years ago

 

[Dryce]

Already tried that with “smart” motorways......

From a congestion point of view smart motorways work.

There may be other aspects that are subject to debate - as to the monitoring or even the length of time it takes to set them up. But theycan have a noticable effect on congestion.

 

[190]

An interesting read..

Electric vehicles and air pollution: the claims and the facts - EPHA

What are the claims and the facts about the move to electric vehicles to tackle air pollution?

epha.org

It was interesting but it's a pity they fudged the view on EV tyre particle emissions. When they show bias to EV's in every respect then they lose a degree of credibility. With the substantial extra weight and available acceleration it's extremely likely that EV's are going to produce more tyre particle emissions than IC's unless the EV is driven very gently. Even the tyre manufacturer Continental has said "Tests have shown that for a like-for-like comparison EVs with 2 wheel drive systems can reduce tyre mileage by a quarter"

 

[Dryce]

Sounds plausible. The US members on the IONIQ 5 forum I frequent are saying that in the US the IONIQ 5 sells at between $5,000 and $10,000 above MSRP due to short supply of new cars (in the US it's customary for car dealers to sell new cars with a meakup over list price when demand outstrips supply, apparently

The situation in the US and Canada is similar to the UK - general shortage of stock and long lead times. I've heard of buyers from US purchasing cars from Canada at a premium.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Perhaps we should just look at what the French are doing and follow the their lead, they were streets ahead on the switch to diesel.
They are a far more advanced country.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Perhaps we should just look at what the French are doing and follow the their lead, they were streets ahead on the switch to diesel.
They are a far more advanced country.

Advanced? Debatable.

Perhaps in the sense that they treat their cars as functional white goods, bought from the domestic manufacturer. Money and wealth is spent on the important things in life: clothes, food, restaurants, and the cinq à sept.

France registered 1,600,000 new cars in 2021, including 55,000 BEV's - mainly Zoe's and Tesla 3's.

I've been down in the South of France for a couple of weeks and two points jump out.

Public EV charging points are rare - the large coastal town I'm in has four, which is fine for off-season but that won't couper le moutarde in the Summer. I've yet to see an actual charger in cities like Nice and Cannes, let alone see if whether the charging points are being used.

The French are still driving small French hatchbacks, usually diesel. Hybrids seem still very rare, although the car advertising waxes lyrical about them.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Advanced? Debatable.

Perhaps in the sense that they treat their cars as functional white goods, bought from the domestic manufacturer. Money and wealth is spent on the important things in life: clothes, food, restaurants, and the cinq à sept.

I've been down in the South of France for a couple of weeks and two points jump out.

Public EV charging points are rare - the large coastal town I'm in has four, which is fine for off-season but that won't couper le moutarde in the Summer. I've yet to see an actual charger in cities like Nice and Cannes, let alone see if it's being used.

The French are still driving small French hatchbacks, usually diesel. Hybrids seem still very rare, although the car advertising waxes lyrical about them.

I've noticed two Teslas, a Fiat 500, and one Ioniq 5 - all out of town motors, but obviously I won't have noticed everything.

Maybe they are ahead of the curve again, it doesn’t always mean technologically advanced.

 

[clk320x]

Is there an ignore button for an entire thread?

Reading about a new tax isn’t something that I enjoy. As if we aren’t taxed enough already… income tax, BIK, VED, Duty on fuel/ certain products, VAT on food, energy, services, Inheritance Tax etc etc etc.

 

[Bellow]

The obvious parameter on which to base VED taxation on EVs is the battery size in kW.hrs.
On account of not all the electricity used to propel them being generated from renewables (only 60% or so) and that use of EVs drives demand which incurs more fossil fuel generation, EVs should be taxed to represent their energy consumption - at circa 40% of petrol/diesel fuel duty/VAT. Basing that on annual mileage would be the quickest and simplest way to implement it. Battery size could also be factored in to reflect actual energy consumption.

 

[Tonygw]

Tax cyclists that's should plug the gap in revenue..

(just going to hide now)

 

[Deleted member 126251]

With new vehicle sales at their lowest in the UK since the 1960’s and their lowest in Europe since the early 1990’s, a change is under way.

Chip shortage, manufacturing delays and overpriced used cars - I doubt that low sales are due to lack of demand.?

 

[ChipChop]

Tax cyclists that's should plug the gap in revenue..

(just going to hide now)

How about just taxing cyclists that are using electrically assisted bicycles, the lazy sods.