The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

Proper cars have oil temperature gauges for the engine at least. I remember many years ago in my old 16v W201s that even after the air vents blow warm air, it takes several miles of driving to get the oil fully up to temperature. And that’s just the engine!

I should think many cars don’t get the transmission up to temperature during the winter on the majority of typical journeys - eg 5-10 miles or something.

And the rest. I’m pretty sure that platform/engine we have in common has a transmission oil temperature, in Winter it can be much more. I’ll try to remember when I’m out in a car with transmission oil gauge.

I’ve noticed that engine oil warms up more quickly when driving at higher speeds - which isn’t ideal in itself - whereas it’s much less pronounced for transmission oil, and I’ve never really hook the time to think about why.

 

[markjay]

Proper cars have oil temperature gauges for the engine at least. I remember many years ago in my old 16v W201s that even after the air vents blow warm air, it takes several miles of driving to get the oil fully up to temperature. And that’s just the engine!

I should think many cars don’t get the transmission up to temperature during the winter on the majority of typical journeys - eg 5-10 miles or something.

What is this "getting up to temperature" that you speak of?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The reality is total annual vehicle registrations in the UK have never recovered to pre 2020 (pre-covid) levels. Makes your EV market growth claims moot.

So does that mean that it’s a car thing rather than an EV thing?

 

[markjay]

The reality is total annual vehicle registrations in the UK have never recovered to pre 2020 (pre-covid) levels....

Not a bad thing, mind.

UK: new car registrations 2023 | Statista

In 2023, there were 1.90 million new passenger cars registered in the United Kingdom.

www.statista.com

 

[ChipChop]

So does that mean that it’s a car thing rather than an EV thing?

My response to that question would bring politics into this thread and that is verboten (#buildbackbetter#netzeromadness)

 

[Will]

The reality is total annual vehicle registrations in the UK have never recovered to pre 2020 (pre-covid) levels. Makes your EV market growth claims moot.

How many electric cars are there in the UK?​

As of the end of October 2024, there are just under 1,300,000 fully electric cars in the UK. This means that around 3.83% of the c.34 million cars on UK roads are fully electric.
The graph below shows the growth in the number of electric cars in the UK between 2020 and 2024. At the end of 2020, there were 205,770 electric cars, which represented 0.6% of all cars on the road and since then the number of electric cars has increased more than five-fold.

Number of electric cars in the UK and percentage of total car parc
BEV% of total car parc20202021202220232024(YTD)0…………1M1.…1.……1%2%3%…

2020	205,770	0.63%
2021	396,497	1.21%
2022	663,700	2.00%
2023	978,387	2.91%
2024 (YTD)	1,299,055	3.83%

[th]

Year​

[/th][th]

BEV​

[/th][th]

% of total car parc​

[/th]​

Source: SMMT and DfT, October 2024

How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap

Find out how many electric vehicles there are in the UK, from pure-electric cars to PHEVs and electric vans.

www.zap-map.com

 

[markjay]

Vehicle licensing statistics: 2023

www.gov.uk

"Comparing 2023 with 2022, in the UK, there were:

* 2,535,000 vehicles registered for the first time, an increase of 16% (VEH0150)

* 342,000 vehicles registered for the first time that were zero emission, an increase of 17% (VEH1153a)

* 314,000 cars registered for the first time that were zero emission, an increase of 18%


At the end of December 2023, compared to December 2022, in the UK there were:

* 41.2 million licensed vehicles, an increase of 1% (VEH0101a)

* 1,015,000 licensed zero emission vehicles, an increase of 47% (VEH1103a), including 931,000 zero emission cars, an increase of 48%

* At the end of 2023, zero emission vehicles accounted for 2.5% of all road using vehicles, an increase of 0.8 percentage points from the end of 2022."

 

[ChipChop]

New car sales/registrations stats in link below.

Manufacturer insight - new car sales figures

www.am-online.com

 

[philnewmerc]

Marginal anyway and insignificant at A and B-road speeds. Maybe more significant for EV as they seem to struggle at higher speeds. A wet road has more impact - and that can be at any ambient temp.

Ooo careful now, that's gonna touch a nerve or two, lol

Agreed. Adding to this…

Using a CLS 55 AMG travelling at the often cited 85 MPH average cruising speed as an example - and assuming that all fluids are up to target operating temperature, the road is level and straight, and there is no wind - aerodynamic resistance increases by 10.2% at 0 deg C compared to 25 deg C, whereas the overall running resistance (and therefore power to maintain constant speed) only increases by 5.5%.

Ambient Temperature (C) - Aerodynamic Drag (N) - Running (Resistance N) - Running Resitance Power (kW)
25 - 618 - 1071 40.67
0 - 681 - 1134 - 43.0
-25 - 744 - 1196 - 45.5

Not sure where you're getting these daft examples from
Shortly before I sold the CLS I was on the motorway in a 50 zone and at the end I floored it to get back up to the said quoted cruising speed, just for fun, hear the v8, piss off the tailgating Tesla, etc. The washing machine white blobby Tesla behind me stuck on my tail though. It was a sad - if illuminating - day for people who've grown up talking about carburettors, valves, turbos, cylinders, rear v front drive, V8s, straight 6s, snickety gearboxes, torque converters, twin cams and a dab of oppo. [Expensive performance car and city car] EVs are superior in every way, but they don't seem to be... what's the word: romantic? Are they more like any other digital device: Amazing, capable, but ultimately, soulless?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Ooo careful now, that's gonna touch a nerve or two, lol


Not sure where you're getting these daft examples from
Shortly before I sold the CLS I was on the motorway in a 50 zone and at the end I floored it to get back up to the said quoted cruising speed, just for fun, hear the v8, piss off the tailgating Tesla, etc. The washing machine white blobby Tesla behind me stuck on my tail though. It was a sad - if illuminating - day for people who've grown up talking about carburettors, valves, turbos, cylinders, rear v front drive, V8s, straight 6s, snickety gearboxes, torque converters, twin cams and a dab of oppo. [Expensive performance car and city car] EVs are superior in every way, but they don't seem to be... what's the word: romantic? Are they more like any other digital device: Amazing, capable, but ultimately, soulless?

Pretty much.

Digital watches are amazing and the least expensive will be more accurate than pretty much any mechanical watch at any price point. An Apple Watch can be a perfect watch and do a umogeen things too.

People who are really into watches still buy posh watches, despite being inferior. Everyone else buys a digital, quartz or Apple Watch depending upon budget, functional requirements and desire to impress others.

Cars are no different.

 

[Bellow]

That’s quick, I don’t think I’ve ever had a car which warms up so quickly. How many miles does it take for engine and transmission oil to get up to target operating temperature?

Judging by the oil pressure gauge. engine oil (only 5 litres in a 5,7l V8) another 4 - 6 miles. I fitted a thermostat in my transmission cooler line so the (low viscosity) trans fluid isn't overcooled. The TC churn heats it up pretty quickly I'd reckon.

I understand your point, however that should be applied equally to EVs. I’m cool with absurd for ICE and absurd for EVs. I’m cool with necessary for ICE and necessary for EVs. I’m less cool with absurd for ICE but necessary for EVs.

The relevant point here is that heating from ICE is at no additional cost. The heat was going to be rejected anyway so no effect on range. Not so with EV. If, there are additional electrically heated items then that's luxuries that have to be paid for irrespective of ICE or EV but they are luxuries. The basics of demisting and cabin heating are amply catered for with ICE - though diesels may be a bit marginal there but diesel isn't the only ICE choice available.

I’m not suggesting you specifically, however most people regard those creature comforts as necessary how many times have you read about EV drivers having to wear a coat and scarf, switch the radio off, etc?

Heard it but not seen it. To be fair I see ICE drivers doing the same. Presumably because their trip is so short undressing (coat, hat, gloves) isn't worthwhile as they'll be outside again soon. Done the same plenty times myself.

 

[Bellow]

Pic below was sent to me this morning. It is the road I used to have to use to and from the last house I lived in. If that was me, and in an EV I'd be making my way home where the recharging is. Without much battery charge left it'd be a cold night. With ICE I'd have refuelled prior so plenty available heat. Why not recharge an EV before heading home? Because when the weather is like that the road is worsening with every minute. Time is everything when conditions are so changeable. Guaranteed, that road was fine in the morning - but impassible by evening.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Judging by the oil pressure gauge. engine oil (only 5 litres in a 5,7l V8) another 4 - 6 miles. I fitted a thermostat in my transmission cooler line so the (low viscosity) trans fluid isn't overcooled. The TC churn heats it up pretty quickly I'd reckon.

The relevant point here is that heating from ICE is at no additional cost. The heat was going to be rejected anyway so no effect on range. Not so with EV. If, there are additional electrically heated items then that's luxuries that have to be paid for irrespective of ICE or EV but they are luxuries. The basics of demisting and cabin heating are amply catered for with ICE - though diesels may be a bit marginal there but diesel isn't the only ICE choice available.

Heard it but not seen it. To be fair I see ICE drivers doing the same. Presumably because their trip is so short undressing (coat, hat, gloves) isn't worthwhile as they'll be outside again soon. Done the same plenty times myself.

Obviously the basic laws of thermodynamics don't apply to your car!!! LOL

 

[Bellow]

Obviously the basic laws of thermodynamics don't apply to your car!!! LOL

Come back when YOU have a qualification in thermodynamics. Until then you're just the oily rag.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Very mature.....you just need to, and probably do, realise that you have written a fair bit of technically incorrect rubbish in you last few post about efficiency in ICE cars. Every one has a right to an opinion....you only have to look through this thread to realise that there are wildly differing ones on EVs.....but facts is facts and no amount of opinion can alter those. A while back I said I would not post on EV threads...because of all the stuff like this and other anti EV stuff, but I got lured back in....think I'll stick to it this time. Just to clarify before I go....I think EVs are the future, I could quite easily use one and it would easily fit in with my car use patterns....but will I buy one?...nope....not because of any intrinsic issues with them....just because I don't like them.....or to be more accurate I like cars powered by a living breathing ICE motor far more.....and I cant see any future EV advances changing that view.........but there is a big difference between not wanting one.....and writing loads of nonsense about them like there is in this thread.....most of which is laughably written by those that don't, and probably never will, own one!!!

Bye and have fun.

 

[SmartAmg]

Very mature.....you just need to, and probably do, realise that you have written a fair bit of technically incorrect rubbish in you last few post about efficiency in ICE cars. Every one has a right to an opinion....you only have to look through this thread to realise that there are wildly differing ones on EVs.....but facts is facts and no amount of opinion can alter those. A while back I said I would not post on EV threads...because of all the stuff like this and other anti EV stuff, but I got lured back in....think I'll stick to it this time. Just to clarify before I go....I think EVs are the future, I could quite easily use one and it would easily fit in with my car use patterns....but will I buy one?...nope....not because of any intrinsic issues with them....just because I don't like them.....or to be more accurate I like cars powered by a living breathing ICE motor far more.....and I cant see any future EV advances changing that view.........but there is a big difference between not wanting one.....and writing loads of nonsense about them like there is in this thread.....most of which is laughably written by those that don't, and probably never will, own one!!!

Bye and have fun.

Absolutely, spot on!

 

[Bellow]

Very mature.....you just need to, and probably do, realise that you have written a fair bit of technically incorrect rubbish in you last few post about efficiency in ICE cars.

Instead of running away, why don't you counter my assertions with facts?

 

[markjay]

...The relevant point here is that heating from ICE is at no additional cost. The heat was going to be rejected anyway so no effect on range....

Setting aside 'posh' cars with electric cabin pre-heaters (which isn't the norm), you are indeed correct. In fact, this is the main reason why EVs are more energy efficient than ICE cars - because ICE cars dissipate a lot of heat via the radiator and the brakes, which is energy going to waste.

My EV is equipped with a heat pump that captures heat from the battery and stores it, then uses the 'stored' energy to heat the cabin. Of course, it can't suppory 100% of cabin heating under all circumstances, but it's a move in the right direction. What we need is more of this sort of clever tech that minimises energy waste.

The obvious issue with your original comment, though, is that it's akin to using a hose to water the garden during a period of draught, because your house isn't fitted with a water meter. At the point of consumption it may seem to you as 'free' water, but this is only because the system is set up so that the negative implications aren't felt at the consumption end, instead they accumulate further up the ecological chain.

In this context, I would argue that as far as the environment is concerned, EVs are superior to ICE cars, because an EV has the ability to consume energy for cabin heating only when it's actually required, while ICE cars produce (and waste) this energy all the time.

 

[BTB 500]

In this context, I would argue that as far as the environment is concerned, EVs are superior to ICE cars, because an EV has the ability to consume energy for cabin heating only when it's actually required, while ICE cars produce (and waste) this energy all the time.

... and a horse and cart would be superior to an EV, because no energy would ever be used for cabin heating

 

[philnewmerc]

How many electric cars are there in the UK?​

As of the end of October 2024, there are just under 1,300,000 fully electric cars in the UK. This means that around 3.83% of the c.34 million cars on UK roads are fully electric.
The graph below shows the growth in the number of electric cars in the UK between 2020 and 2024. At the end of 2020, there were 205,770 electric cars, which represented 0.6% of all cars on the road and since then the number of electric cars has increased more than five-fold.

Number of electric cars in the UK and percentage of total car parc
BEV% of total car parc20202021202220232024(YTD)0…………1M1.…1.……1%2%3%…

2020	205,770	0.63%
2021	396,497	1.21%
2022	663,700	2.00%
2023	978,387	2.91%
2024 (YTD)	1,299,055	3.83%

[th]
Year

[/th][th]
BEV

[/th][th]
% of total car parc

[/th]​

Source: SMMT and DfT, October 2024

How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap

Find out how many electric vehicles there are in the UK, from pure-electric cars to PHEVs and electric vans.

www.zap-map.com

Just out of curiosity I put those numbers (percentage of cars that are EVs by year) into an Excel sheet and worked out the line of best fit for the 2020-2024 data (left: 4th order polynomial gave lowest R value), then applied it to predict how those numbers would grow (right). Turns out they predict EV cars being 100% of cars on the road by 2032. Not sure that's gonna happen but maybe my method is incorrect? Or maybe it will happen?!