Cheap ride for EV users coming to an end ??

[st13phil]

Technology gets cheaper, cars depreciate and market conditions will ease, and so things will change.

As a general principle, I agree, but for the current crop of EV's I think there is significant danger that they will be scrapped much sooner than equivalent ICE-powered cars. My view is based on:

1. Technology is changing rapidly in the sector (albeit not in the area I think is most important), so there will almost certainly be issues with obsolescence and maintainability as they age
2. Rapidly changing technology tends to result in a price premium, as the economies of scale don’t really kick in until there’s less change and more stability. New EV's are therefore likely to remain a high-cost product
3. The battery packs have a finite life, measured in years rather than decades, have a disturbingly high premature failure rate, and are horrendously expensive. No-one in their right mind will buy a 10-year-old EV for more than a peppercorn sum when they’re staring at an £8k, £10k or higher bill to keep it going when the battery fails

All this adds up to having to amortise the purchase cost over one or two ownership cycles, and then scrap the car. That is a very expensive proposition, and also means that the pool of viable used vehicles is unlikely to expand at a rate that would meet the demands of most car owners.

 

[grober]

There is a conundrum for the major car manufacturers that in manufacturing EV vehicles they are essentially competing with themselves in the form of their existing ICE vehicles. They will have made major investments in engine and assembly plants for ICE vehicles and they need to get a return on that investment. There are several strategies open to them-- electrify their existing models--- this is a route many major manufacturers have taken which reduces some of the development costs. The second is not to build EVs that are truly competitive with their existing products either in range or cost yet . They may well have the technology to build better EVs than their current offerings but not if this continues to compete with their existing product range? Time will tell but it's perhaps revealing most of them have gone for the high-end of the EV market because it's more profitable. Duesenberg were never going to build a model T!

 

[markjay]

I never quite understood the whole Vehicle-to-Load (aka V2L) concept.

It sounds to me just like filling-up in one petrol station and then delivering half the tank to another.... while spilling some of it in the process

But from the online forums, V2L seems to be a big hit in the US and Canada, for some reason.

Not sure if they are actually selling it back to the grid though, or use it in another way. Maybe they use it in areas where the grid provides unstable power supply? No idea.

Personally, I am still mystified as to why EV manufacturers think that V2L is a selling point, but apparently it does seem to work in some markets.

Well, I guess I stand corrected.... just saw this on another forum:

 

[Dickster]

For 90% of journeys, for 90% of drivers an EV and our charging infrastructure is sufficient. Of course the 10% that don’t fit might regularly do longer journeys in more rural areas and EV might not be right for them for a long time.

90% is a hell of a lot out of what, 30 million cars? Surely you’re not suggesting that the current charging infrastructure is adequate for 90% of drivers?

Perhaps I misunderstand….

 

[Dickster]

It seems to me that the prices of EVs (I’ve gone through loads of lease options after I drove an ipace ) are very dependent on the size of the battery. Large batteries for decent range are very expensive and I cannot see that changing.

 

[markjay]

90% is a hell of a lot out of what, 30 million cars? Surely you’re not suggesting that the current charging infrastructure is adequate for 90% of drivers?

Perhaps I misunderstand….

Fair point. But, say a sustainable figure is 70%... or 50%... or even 30%.... that's still a considerable amount of toxic exhaust gasses that can be avoided if all those who could convert to EV, would.

As I have said before, unfotunately the very valid point that EVs are not right for everyone just yet, is used by some to argue that no one should have an EV....

 

[Dickster]

I’m all for them after my test drive and they are ideal for us. However, the cost remains the biggest barrier. And as I said I do not see that changing much.

I have a 23 mile commute into London on a motorcycle and so an electric one would be ideal, but for the mortgage required to buy one..

 

[markjay]

i currently work at a main dealers and there is electric cars in for repair all the time and it takes 2 guys 2 hours to make the car safe to work on and the same to bring it back into operation so for and job there is a minimum of 4 hours labour before any other work is done, i have seen motors changed, cooling/ heating systems needing work, charging systems not working properly, battery faults and wiring faults been done, now when the cars in warranty thats all fine and good but having to pay for this yourself gets really expensive really quickly and thats my issue with ev, its true what they say “ignorance is bliss”

I looked-up the rescue guide for my EV, and they say this:

So it seems that there's an emergency cut-off for the HV traction battery, though it will probably not be sufficient if the actual HV battery need replacing.

EDIT: Seems like its a common feature? E.g.:

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[whitenemesis]

Under the boot floor in my hybrid is a service plug. Pull that and the high voltage battery is isolated.

 

[Red C220]

I’m all for them after my test drive and they are ideal for us. However, the cost remains the biggest barrier. And as I said I do not see that changing much.

I have a 23 mile commute into London on a motorcycle and so an electric one would be ideal, but for the mortgage required to buy one..

We have two EV's at completely opposite ends of the scale.
<-----see list.

One is a city car - a shopping car, realistically a second car but it would be absolutely ideal for a 23 mile return commute if you had either home charging or office charging. It's the vehicle equivalent of white goods but incredibly good at what it does. My wifes carers love it and neither have ever had any interest in EV's. They use it on a daily basis

Our other one is just plain expensive whatever way you look at it, but it's very nice indeed - think of it in terms of an AMG - you don't need one but you want one. It happened to be a very good way for us to get money out of our limited company without punitive taxation. I was also never drawn to Tesla's.

We lease the cheap one (3+35 - £275+ vat p/m 8,000miles pa) - we bought the other one.

I use the Mazda more.

Right now the key to EV ownership is home charging, home charging with off street parking more specifically. Without that it's a bit of a chore. So that means it's not currently for everyone, but it will evolve.

It works for me, very well actually. Far better than I thought it would and I only showed any interest in EV's once the tax benefits were explained to me. I'd be lying if I claimed I had either of these for enviromental reasons.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

90% is a hell of a lot out of what, 30 million cars? Surely you’re not suggesting that the current charging infrastructure is adequate for 90% of drivers?

Perhaps I misunderstand….

I’m suggesting that 90% of journeys travelled by 90% of drivers are less than the range of a typical EV, and as such as EV is suitable for many drivers already.

The charging infrastructure is already sufficient for the EVs already in use and it’s expansion will keep pace with the increase in the number of EVs.

 

[Ted]

Under the boot floor in my hybrid is a service plug. Pull that and the high voltage battery is isolated.

It is also isolated from the vehicle by two relays built into the battery unit - one for the positive side and one for the negative side. These aren’t energised until the hybrid system has completed and passed self checks.

 

[Tonye]

££££££££

 

[Wolfie1]

I looked-up the rescue guide for my EV, and they say this:

So it seems that there's an emergency cut-off for the HV traction battery, though it will probably not be sufficient if the actual HV battery need replacing.

EDIT: Seems like its a common feature? E.g.:

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Or if any part of the hv system needs worked on

 

[Dickster]

We have two EV's at completely opposite ends of the scale.
<-----see list.

One is a city car - a shopping car, realistically a second car but it would be absolutely ideal for a 23 mile return commute if you had either home charging or office charging. It's the vehicle equivalent of white goods but incredibly good at what it does. My wifes carers love it and neither have ever had any interest in EV's. They use it on a daily basis

Our other one is just plain expensive whatever way you look at it, but it's very nice indeed - think of it in terms of an AMG - you don't need one but you want one. It happened to be a very good way for us to get money out of our limited company without punitive taxation. I was also never drawn to Tesla's.

We lease the cheap one (3+35 - £275+ vat p/m 8,000miles pa) - we bought the other one.

I use the Mazda more.

Right now the key to EV ownership is home charging, home charging with off street parking more specifically. Without that it's a bit of a chore. So that means it's not currently for everyone, but it will evolve.

It works for me, very well actually. Far better than I thought it would and I only showed any interest in EV's once the tax benefits were explained to me. I'd be lying if I claimed I had either of these for enviromental reasons.

I was seriously thinking about it for the same reason, tax efficiency. Unfortunately, my office is by Bond St tube station so parking a car is not an option.

After researching leases for 3 days (cheap and expensive cars) I came to the conclusion that it wasn’t worth it just to save some tax. We really need a car the size of an X5 as we have three dogs, and electric options are crazy money. There’s also a current trend to put a fast back on current suv models which makes the boots much smaller

 

[Dickster]

I’m suggesting that 90% of journeys travelled by 90% of drivers are less than the range of a typical EV, and as such as EV is suitable for many drivers already.

The charging infrastructure is already sufficient for the EVs already in use and it’s expansion will keep pace with the increase in the number of EVs.

I agree with your first para but not the second