Cheap ride for EV users coming to an end ??

[190]

Fuel and excise duty must be replaced with new tax, MPs say

The UK will be left with a £35bn "black hole" as motorists switch to electric cars, says Transport committee.

www.bbc.co.uk

They have been saying this for how many years and will still be saying it for years to come.

Mean while the EV's are getting a free ride, taxation income is falling and we are still many years away from a solution.

Given the state of the public finances they need to start a simple taxtation scheme for EV's tomorrow and replace it with something sophisticated when they are able.

 

[A.J.]

Not a bad idea to charge per mileage between MOT's but I do fear this would open up a massive opportunity for criminals to adjust mileage. Brutal penalties don't seem to be a deterrent to those types unfortunately.

Hopefully they could find a way to full proof the mileage recorded on a car so tampering wasn't possible. But criminals have a habit of finding a way. I would think its a fair system though, better than the current system we have.

What about cars that are not eligible for MOT, ie under three years old which would encompass almost every Company Car on the road, and indeed the most prolific users of our road network.

 

[clk320x]

Why not just stick a similar system to what we have now? Except without basing prices on Co2 emissions base it on the vehicles new price?

Then again - the simplest way to do this would be using smart meters to somehow bill electricity used to charge an EV at a higher taxed price.

 

[st13phil]

If road pricing is to prevail it could be done without any invasion of privacy or surveillance.

I completely agree. But…

All that's lacking is congestion period targeting - a small price to pay for easier public acceptance when surveillance and privacy concerns are negated.

You may classify it as a small price to pay, but I’ll have a bet with you that our civil servants, politicians and policy makers see it as a primary, non-negotiable, aspect of any road charging scheme.

 

[Markw70]

Am I missing something, why does it need to be a major technical challenge. Just put all ev’s onto the existing system. Ev’s up to £30k could pay the current average road fund say £140 a year above £30k could pay £250 a year. Job done and no need for fancy tracking systems. Oh and they could also give you a little paper disc that you stick in the corner of your windscreen to remind you when it’s due

 

[markjay]

I do think that car taxing should be debated. I don't know what's the best way forward is, but personally I don't think EVs should have tax exemptions at state level.

The only advantage of EVs for society is zero exhasut emissions, and to some extent also reduced noise pollution. The former makes a huge difference to air quality in residential areas. So we should let each local council decide how they want to reward or incentivise zero-exhaust-emissions vehicles in their locality. The less densely populated places won't bother, London and other large cities will be more interested, I believe.

 

[Dryce]

The only advantage of EVs for society is zero exhasut emissions, and to some extent also reduced noise pollution. The former makes a huge difference to air quality in residential areas.

Does it?

I think there may be some differences in specific areas (eg. bus infested streets in city centres). But TBH I don't think it makes a lot of *real* difference in large areas of our cities or suburbs.

So I wouldn't be too happy living next to the likes of the South or North circular - but then very few people actually do. There are plenty of adjacent streets that are quite pleasant not so far off these busy streets.

A better short term solution for everybody would be to redue congestion. And there seems to be a morbid interest in doing the exactly the opposite within modern councils.

 

[markjay]

Does it?

I think there may be some differences in specific areas (eg. bus infested streets in city centres). But TBH I don't think it makes a lot of *real* difference in large areas of our cities or suburbs.

So I wouldn't be too happy living next to the likes of the South or North circular - but then very few people actually do. There are plenty of adjacent streets that are quite pleasant not so far off these busy streets.

A better short term solution for everybody would be to redue congestion. And there seems to be a morbid interest in doing the exactly the opposite within modern councils.

Congestion can be reduced by further taxing all cars (EVs included) and spending the money on improving public transport. But no government will be elected on the back of this policy. So if we can't reduce ongestion... let's reduce exhaust gas pollution instead.

 

[st13phil]

Am I missing something

You are: Duty (tax) & VAT on Petrol / Diesel.

 

[Markw70]

You are: Duty (tax) & VAT on Petrol / Diesel.

I appreciate what you say about tax revenue from fuel sales. I was looking at a simple way of at least recouping some money. If everyone paid something unlike the current situation where certain vehicles are exempt and pay nothing to use the roads.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Gormless question follows:

Is there anything (apart from some kind of storage/adapter) stopping someone plugging in to their own solar panels/wind jobby?

 

[davymead]

Intriguing information.

ROSS CLARK analyses the state of Britain's energy reserves

If Ofgem's decision to hike domestic energy bills from April by almost £700 confirmed one thing for us, it should be that now, more than ever, we must rapidly work towards energy security.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[st13phil]

Gormless question follows:

Is there anything (apart from some kind of storage/adapter) stopping someone plugging in to their own solar panels/wind jobby?

Not gormless.

No issue other than the time to charge (obviously installation dependent).

 

[Dryce]

Congestion can be reduced by further taxing all cars (EVs included) and spending the money on improving public transport. But no government will be elected on the back of this policy. So if we can't reduce ongestion... let's reduce exhaust gas pollution instead.

Or congestion can be decreased by expanding road capacity instead of (perversely) always trying to constrain it..

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Gormless question follows:

Is there anything (apart from some kind of storage/adapter) stopping someone plugging in to their own solar panels/wind jobby?

Nailed it, mon vieux. Very much part of the California / Musk model of selling the tech to collect and store energy in your own home, or area, for local use.

Could be solar, wind, water, whatever.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

(Cough) Road pricing means that high mileage users will pay more for road use than low mileage users.

Think of Amazon, Uber, Road transport services, etc etc.

All the transcontinental hauliers delivering goods into the UK, the Irish hauliers using the UK as their land bridge to Europe, and the Polish and Romanian hauliers driving into the UK and using 3.5 tonne curtain-sides to avoid the tacho restrictions on safe driving hours.

(Ignore the whooping noises from classic car owners, who "might" no longer have to SORN their classics for 9 months of the year to avoid absurd taxes on their 500 miles a year worth of summer driving)

All taxes are paid by the end consumer, but taxing use, pollution, and CO2 emitted makes more sense that taxing ownership of a vehicle.

 

[markjay]

Or congestion can be decreased by expanding road capacity instead of (perversely) always trying to constrain it..

Yes, but there's a limit to how much we can expand road capacity in urban areas, before we go into compulsory purchase and knocking down homes.

This is because the number of cars in the UK just keeps going up:

Giving cars more road space in cities will only provide a very temporary short term respite from traffic congestion. The problem will be back to how it was before within the decade, as more and more cars are added to our roads.

The mid term planning has to evolve around how to stop these cars from travelling into city centres, and not around how to keep building even wider roads.

The long term goal has to be reversing the trend of constant growth in the number of privately owned vehicles, especially given the steady population growth.

And, as far as urban areas are concerned, efficient and affordable public transport is the key to all of the above.

The Victorians understood that public transport is key to prosperity in cities, and started digging tunnels for trains under London's streets 150 years ago. Since them, we've lost the plot.

 

[BigEyd]

Also one to look at https://www.abd.org.uk/new-law-means-road-pricing-is-unjustified/

 

[ToeKnee]

(Cough) Road pricing means that high mileage users will pay more for road use than low mileage users.

But higher mileage users already pay more, the more miles you do the more fuel you need and the more tax, vat and duty you pay?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But higher mileage users already pay more, the more miles you do the more fuel you need and the more tax, vat and duty you pay?

“Currently” yes, but not in the world that’s arriving. The high mileage driver will be running on electric from her home, office, factory or Tesco car park.

Amazon will be paying nothing in fuel and road taxes when it delivers your daily parcel.

Foreign hauliers don’t pay road tax, or purchase VAT on their vehicles to use British roads, part of the reason why Romanian and Polish vehicles dominate arterial roads like the A1 and M1, as well as Irish hauliers using the land bridge to Europe