The EV fact thread

[SmartAmg]

... and a horse and cart would be superior to an EV, because no energy would ever be used for cabin heating

Don't be silly.

 

[ChipChop]

Not a bad thing, mind.

UK: new car registrations 2023 | Statista

In 2023, there were 1.90 million new passenger cars registered in the United Kingdom.

www.statista.com

The motor industry in this country loses 29.43% of sales in 2020, 28.9% in 2021, 30.4% in 2022, 14% in 2023 and 27% in 2024 (YTD to Oct) and you consider that not a bad thing?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

... and a horse and cart would be superior to an EV, because no energy would ever be used for cabin heating

Chilly on a cold day though, and I’ll be honest I wouldn’t fancy taking one in the motorway

 

[ChipChop]

View attachment 164346
Just out of curiosity I put those numbers (percentage of cars that are EVs by year) into an Excel sheet and worked out the line of best fit for the 2020-2024 data (left: 4th order polynomial gave lowest R value), then applied it to predict how those numbers would grow (right). Turns out they predict EV cars being 100% of cars on the road by 2032. Not sure that's gonna happen but maybe my method is incorrect? Or maybe it will happen?!

Seems rather rash to assume growth when the reality for some manufacturers is shrinking sales. EV only manufacturers like Tesla and Polestar have sold far less cars in 2024 than they did in 2023. Tesla registrations down 12.4% this year. Polestar registrations down 34.4%. (comparing jan-oct 2023 with 2024 YTD). BYD admittedly have done well this year, +861% (6000 cars sold), but only because they had so few UK sales (600) last year.

 

[BTB 500]

Chilly on a cold day though, and I’ll be honest I wouldn’t fancy taking one in the motorway

Need to watch out for the tailpipe emissions too

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Beyond company cars, I don’t really know anyone who is buying brand new cars whether ICE or EV, apart from the very wealthy who really enjoy cars, but they’re not buying normal cars, and they’re not normal people.

 

[markjay]

... and a horse and cart would be superior to an EV, because no energy would ever be used for cabin heating

Ah... but horses fart....

 

[Bellow]

Setting aside 'posh' cars with electric cabin pre-heaters (which isn't the norm), you are indeed correct. In fact, this is the main reason why EVs are more energy efficient than ICE cars - because ICE cars dissipate a lot of heat via the radiator and the brakes, which is energy going to waste.

The brakes argument is a red herring as one, on say, a motorway braking isn't an issue and two, regen braking's success is dependent to a degree on a driver's inability to 'read the road'.

My EV is equipped with a heat pump that captures heat from the battery and stores it, then uses the 'stored' energy to heat the cabin. Of course, it can't suppory 100% of cabin heating under all circumstances, but it's a move in the right direction. What we need is more of this sort of clever tech that minimises energy waste.

Been wondering for a while why ICE vehicles aren't given the same energy saving tweaks as EVs - eg, aero, low resistance tyres, etc.

The obvious issue with your original comment, though, is that it's akin to using a hose to water the garden during a period of draught, because your house isn't fitted with a water meter. At the point of consumption it may seem to you as 'free' water, but this is only because the system is set up so that the negative implications aren't felt at the consumption end, instead they accumulate further up the ecological chain.

I've never denied the relative inefficiency of ICE , Your comment there though should be heeded by those charging on 3-pin plugs who see only cost not energy being squandered.

In this context, I would argue that as far as the environment is concerned, EVs are superior to ICE cars, because an EV has the ability to consume energy for cabin heating only when it's actually required, while ICE cars produce (and waste) this energy all the time.

That is far too narrow a perspective to argue greater environmental advantage from. I could say the same about my domestic central heating but it is a fact that the more it is used, the more CO2 enters the atmosphere.

 

[Bellow]

Absolutely, spot on!

Got something to say - or just carping from behind the sofa?

 

[clk320x]

View attachment 164346
Just out of curiosity I put those numbers (percentage of cars that are EVs by year) into an Excel sheet and worked out the line of best fit for the 2020-2024 data (left: 4th order polynomial gave lowest R value), then applied it to predict how those numbers would grow (right). Turns out they predict EV cars being 100% of cars on the road by 2032. Not sure that's gonna happen but maybe my method is incorrect? Or maybe it will happen?!

You might need a new hobby…

 

[philnewmerc]

You might need a new hobby…

What's that: winding up ICE car enthusiasts who insist its a fad ?

 

[philnewmerc]

Seems rather rash to assume growth when the reality for some manufacturers is shrinking sales. EV only manufacturers like Tesla and Polestar have sold far less cars in 2024 than they did in 2023. Tesla registrations down 12.4% this year. Polestar registrations down 34.4%. (comparing jan-oct 2023 with 2024 YTD). BYD admittedly have done well this year, +861% (6000 cars sold), but only because they had so few UK sales (600) last year.

Its not rash, its just a mathematical regression line that fits the data extremely well. But the source data might be bollocks or a hump... I've no idea I didn't provide it

 

[markjay]

The motor industry in this country loses 29.43% of sales in 2020, 28.9% in 2021, 30.4% in 2022, 14% in 2023 and 27% in 2024 (YTD to Oct) and you consider that not a bad thing?

I'm sure that professional canal leggers weren't happy when the boats became equipped with inboard motors, but that's just the way things go. They should retrain....

 

[SmartAmg]

Got something to say - or just carping from behind the sofa?

I've always had plenty to say, as you know. As have you. In this instance think he said it all, very well. So no, nuff said.

 

[markjay]

The brakes argument is a red herring as one, on say, a motorway braking isn't an issue and two, regen braking's success is dependent to a degree on a driver's inability to 'read the road'....

How often do drivers perform emergency braking....?

I can only remember two such incidents in recent years (a cyclist and a moped, each riding like were being chased by a pack of hungry wolves, riding right into my path from a blind spot).

My regeneration in city driving is around 30% recuperation - that 30% of the energy used to propel the car forward, recaptured into the battery while braking. I don't think this is a world record....

And the only reason that this sort of energy efficiency has limited impact, is that at current only single-digit percentage of cars on our roads are equipped with this technology. But when we'll have 30%, 50%, or 70% of cars on our roads using this level of energy efficiency, the overall positive impact will be much more noticeable.

 

[ToeKnee]

Chilly on a cold day though, and I’ll be honest I wouldn’t fancy taking one in the motorway

What about hay roads??

 

[philnewmerc]

How often do drivers perform emergency braking....?

I can only remember two such incidents in recent years (a cyclist and a moped, each riding like were being chased by a pack of hungry wolves, riding right into my path from a blind spot).

My regeneration in city driving is around 30% recuperation - that 30% of the energy used to propel the car forward, recaptured into the battery while braking. I don't think this is a world record....

And the only reason that this sort of energy efficiency has limited impact, is that at current only single-digit percentage of cars on our roads are equipped with this technology. But when we'll have 30%, 50%, or 70% of cars on our roads using this level of energy efficiency, the overall positive impact will be much more noticeable.

It does seem satisfying not to waste the energy used to accelerate the mass (and is the same reason London cyclists instinctively want to conserve their accumulated kinetic energy... and therefore don't stop at traffic lights). And it is why Prius and Corollas have pretty good mpg in town and pretty average mpg (or poor compared to a good small diesel) on a long run.
I'm a long run cruise set at 72* mph kind of car user, hence diesel for the time being.

*Darn sarf it seems pretty hard to exceed this.

 

[philnewmerc]

You might need a new hobby…

sorry, don't get your cryptic clue there. What are you saying, the method's wrong or the input data or do you have a better suggestion for the trend line best fitting?

 

[Dryce]

The brakes argument is a red herring as one, on say, a motorway braking isn't an issue and two, regen braking's success is dependent to a degree on a driver's inability to 'read the road'.

It's not a red herring if you drive mainly urban/suburban - including congested motorways.

As regards reading the road (via camera and GPS) - a MB ICE car will do this to save fuel - the technology has been in some of the cars for quite a few years now. It can work quite well on some types of road (and driver). Same technology is applicable to EVs.

Been wondering for a while why ICE vehicles aren't given the same energy saving tweaks as EVs - eg, aero, low resistance tyres, etc.

The thing to ask with some EVS is why they are given energy wasting tweaks. Buy a better spec EV and it may well come with wheel/tyre combination and an extra motor taht sap some of the range of the ordinary spec version.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

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