Chipping a C220CDi - worth it?

[HumberMart]

Get a V6 if you can, they are very nice and reliable.

I've been fortunate to have experienced the V6 in the R320 I had. Yes it's a pretty amazing engine, and I guess even better in the latest E350's.

The R only did about 27 mpg, but then they do weigh 2.25 Tons and 4WD. I was lured by the economy of the 4 pot (not to mention the cheaper cost), but I prob overlooked the fact that the V6 in the W212 would be lots more economical than the huge R Class. I was very fond of the 7 speed auto, and having the clear centre console was a useful bonus. However one trouble was that my wife would never drive it. She would not make any attempt to get to grips with the electronic column shift.

 

[420SE]

Blimey. £500 - £600? Celtic seem cheaper. I need to find out what these chaps at DMS Automotice charge.

Any other names I should be considering?

 

[BenzedUP]

You get what you pay for I guess... DMS are about £700-800 plus, without no RR,

One name keep away from 'AA-Technik' they have not got a clue!

 

[wemorgan]

You get what you pay for I guess...

I'm sure that's true to a point, but some of those prices seem quite high. I wonder if the price reflects the value of the cars they are working on.

I know of a reputable VAG place that does tuning with a rolling road. They charge roughly £225 to forum members (free membership) and £300 to the general public. That sounds more reasonable to me.

 

[Mactech]

You get what you pay for I guess... DMS are about £700-800 plus, without no RR,

One name keep away from 'AA-Technik' they have not got a clue!

I wonder how much their advertising budget is reflected in the prices?
From personal experience, both Superchips and G C L tuning do great jobs.

 

[420SE]

I know of a reputable VAG place that does tuning with a rolling road. They charge roughly £225 to forum members (free membership) and £300 to the general public. That sounds more reasonable to me.

Do they do MBs at all?

 

[wemorgan]

Do they do MBs at all?

Only VAG according to their website.

 

[420SE]

Well, I just done some quotes for a remap.

Celtic = £315 and they come to you

E-Maps (rec. to me on another forum) = £299

CKS Performance (absolute comedians) = £599+VAT (yeh, ok!)

CKS said that the reason why their map costs twice that of my nearest quote is that theirs is the best quality map available. How unconvincing!

 

[Adam230K]

DMS have a very good reputation for remapping but will also charge you obscene amounts of money a bit like CKS, for no reason.

My school of thought is, the older the car is, the more widely available the EPROM data will be, and hence, you shouldn't be paying a premium. I got a remap on my old w202 c230k and the results were hugely impressive, mainly because i was expecting the results to be very minimal because it isn't a diesel nor is it turbo charged.

And it only cost me £200 with a before/after dyno to prove!

 

[kay7]

Well, I just done some quotes for a remap.

Celtic = £315 and they come to you

E-Maps (rec. to me on another forum) = £299

CKS Performance (absolute comedians) = £599+VAT (yeh, ok!)

CKS said that the reason why their map costs twice that of my nearest quote is that theirs is the best quality map available. How unconvincing!

CKS are jokers . Avoid them !

 

[420SE]

And it only cost me £200 with a before/after dyno to prove!

Now that's more like it! Can you recall the company's name at all?

After more phone calls:

DMS Automotive want £495+VAT although they say they can come out to you. They also said over the phone that "unlike the other hillbillies, we use our own maps." Hillbilly? Hahahaha!

Jabba, who have a good reputation amongst the VW and Audi lot said they don't really have much experience with Mercs, so I immediately said "cheerioh!"

I did some more digging into Simon of E-maps and he is highly rec. by BMW owners, not a single bad comment about him. I really like what I hear about this guy.

Mixed views on Chipped UK.

Oh and I did a search for Mercedes Performance a.k.a. CKS Performance and the issues people have had with them! Yikes! I wouldn't let them service out 1.0 Suzuki, let alone anything with an MB badge on it!

 

[TommyStevens]

Personally, I’d say that chipping my C220 did make a fair amount of difference to the drivability of the car. There are loads of different tuning boxes out there, which makes it difficult to decide. Personally, I grabbed one from http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/, but a quick Google search will probably find you something.

 

[Blackjack]

Can someone explain how a chip or remap can improve the full efficiency when driving at constant speed?

I thought that such things only worked well whilst accelerating. With increased torque you could drive in a higher gear than normal, therefore improving efficiency. But once in top gear (lock out for autos) there was no difference than without tuning.

Or have I got this all wrong?

First post, be gentle.

The "Diesel Tuning Box" usually has different settings to accommodate different driver requirements. The benefit with an auto box usually results in very smooth gear-changes and changing up at lower revs as more torque is available, i.e. you are in a higher gear sooner.
Once in top gear it usually means less throttle application to maintain the cruising speed due to the additional torque output from engine.

 

[horsesuitedfool]

All i will add is be very careful with tuning boxes as most of them just increase the rail pressure as said by many others and that is not going to give you the best results......Get a decent remap, i would probably use Celtic Tuning as they are reputable and mobile but its up to you. The results on a C220 CDI will be very good, for comparisons sake, the car will be marginally quicker than a standard C270 CDI with very similar outputs but will feel a bit livelier and more responsive. Go for the remap you wont be disappointed!! Its the best value mod on a diesel....imo

Another reason that it saves on fuel, as well as the fact you have a cleaner more efficient burn, is because you have more torque so in certain situations where the car would previously have changed down a gear to accelerate (like when overtaking) it now doesnt need to as the torque output is sufficient to stay 'in gear'......

Lastly, the difference between a chip and a remap can actually be nothing. The difference is simply that a remap is having the new map flashed to the cars existing ECU chip whereas a chip means to remove the cars current chip and replace it with a new one that has a new map on it. Basically the same result but nobody 'chips' cars anymore really unless its too old to be able to be remapped. In fact Superchips will remove one of their chips and refit an original one and then remap the car for free if you have one of their old superchips still on your car......

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

All i will add is be very careful with tuning boxes as most of them just increase the rail pressure as said by many others and that is not going to give you the best results......Get a decent remap, i would probably use Celtic Tuning as they are reputable and mobile but its up to you. The results on a C220 CDI will be very good, for comparisons sake, the car will be marginally quicker than a standard C270 CDI with very similar outputs but will feel a bit livelier and more responsive. Go for the remap you wont be disappointed!! Its the best value mod on a diesel....imo

Another reason that it saves on fuel, as well as the fact you have a cleaner more efficient burn, is because you have more torque so in certain situations where the car would previously have changed down a gear to accelerate (like when overtaking) it now doesnt need to as the torque output is sufficient to stay 'in gear'......

Lastly, the difference between a chip and a remap can actually be nothing. The difference is simply that a remap is having the new map flashed to the cars existing ECU chip whereas a chip means to remove the cars current chip and replace it with a new one that has a new map on it. Basically the same result but nobody 'chips' cars anymore really unless its too old to be able to be remapped. In fact Superchips will remove one of their chips and refit an original one and then remap the car for free if you have one of their old superchips still on your car......

I agree generally with what you say but I'm not convinced it delivers a cleaner and more efficient burn.

There may be a fuel economy benefit depending upon how you drive it, but I really don't think it will improve the actual burn in cylinder - I would have thought it would be the same or possibly a little worse (due to extended injection periods).

 

[horsesuitedfool]

I agree generally with what you say but I'm not convinced it delivers a cleaner and more efficient burn.

There may be a fuel economy benefit depending upon how you drive it, but I really don't think it will improve the actual burn in cylinder - I would have thought it would be the same or possibly a little worse (due to extended injection periods).

Im not qualified enough to say to be honest but the way it was explained to me was that cars are designed to run and stay reliable in all countries they are sold in, these have varying extremes of condition like desert or arctic etc and also more importantly differences of fuel quality and service shedules being adhered to. Basically, as i understood it, you can remap a car to achieve better results with a cleaner more efficient burn etc because you are going to be using good quality fuel and servicing it on time every time. This being because the car no longer needs to be set to possibly have to run on crap fuel. Dont know how much truth in it tbh but i must say that my M3 CSL would only run on 98 ron upwards and when i had my Audi modfified quite a lot and stage 3 custom mapped to take all the mods they told me never to put normal 95 ron in it as it will not run on it.......

 

[altreed]

e270CDI chipping experience + DMS info

Hi,

After adding a 'Dragon' tuning chip (2nd hand) to my Father-in-law's C270cdi, I took my dAd out in it, he thought the performace was so impressive that he wanted one for his e270CDI.

Verily I bought a 2nd hand e270CDI unit from a member on this forum. We fitted it to the car and my dAd was very impressed. Furthermore, he drives very economically and relishes in doing Tank to Tank MPG checks. He confirms that adding the chip has raised the MPG on his car by 15% over the same journey. :bannana:

With regard to DMS, I am going to remap my BMW 330D with a DMS service. When I spoke to them I could drive to Southampton and they would do it for about £300. Before I do that I have some maintenance and servicing to carry out on the car prior to the remap.

I trawled the BMW forum I am a member on and DMS appear to be approved.

 

[Mactech]

I agree generally with what you say but I'm not convinced it delivers a cleaner and more efficient burn.

There may be a fuel economy benefit depending upon how you drive it, but I really don't think it will improve the actual burn in cylinder - I would have thought it would be the same or possibly a little worse (due to extended injection periods).

There is a possibility of a more efficient burn if the pressure differential from rail pressure to internal cylinder pressure is increased. So the atomisation can be improved by a higher rail pressure as often provided by external ‘chips’.
Obviously, to get the best effect of this the timing and length of the ‘squirt’ has to be optimised as you can with a re-map.
Then if you want the injector to perform to its optimum over extended periods you re-design the injector, as Mercedes have done on the new 250CDI….

 

[Gridlock]

Verily I bought a 2nd hand e270CDI unit from a member on this forum.

Top marks for a use of "verily" there.

 

[fuzzer]

Eh sorry to rain on folks parade here but a 250cdi isnt just a remapped 220cdi. It has a whole 2nd turbo charger whereas the 220cdi has one. Its not like the V6 280 and 320cdi at all. The 250cdi is a substancially different engine to the 220cdi car.

The BE 220CDI engine has 2 as well so the OP is correct ***

Thus why in the W204 its 0-60 in 7.6 rather than the non BE's 8.3.