Classic Car Tax

[Charles Morgan]

All my old cars are pre-73, but I don't see it being particularly sensible to have such a cut off enshrined for ever - in 20 years time a 1973 car will be almost 60 years old - why would that not be a classic while a 60 year old one would be?. Given I still have to apply for a disc, which must have some admin attached, why not apply a nominal charge on all such cars with a rolling update and as Derek suggests, this may encourage some cars back on the road (with the attendant expenditure that jon_viola's link highlights).

 

[Scott_F]

Why not ?

What shortfall ? The alternative to having several tax exempt cars is not paying for tax , but keeping them on SORN .

The shortfall that I highlighted in post #6.

 

[Deleted member 11979]

One man's "future classic" is another man's heap of old junk. All you're really saying is that you quite like 70's and 80's Mercs which given the nature of this forum isn't really a surprise.

There are 31m cars in the UK so several hundred thousand must be 1973 - 1987 models that would suddenly qualify for free road tax. Multiply that by say, £145 every year and you have a large hole in the public finances.

The current 1973 cut-off works just fine. I'd rather see Mr W123, Mr Micra and Mr Escort pay their road tax like everyone else.

How many 25 year old cars do you really see on the road?

I see virtually none.

Those that I do see are generally not driven by people who couldn't afford a newer one.

I speak as the owner of two vehicles that qualify for free road tax, and I think it should be extended to all vehicles 25 years old and more.

 

[Scott_F]

How many 25 year old cars do you really see on the road?

I see virtually none.

Those that I do see are generally not driven by people who couldn't afford a newer one.

I speak as the owner of two vehicles that qualify for free road tax, and I think it should be extended to all vehicles 25 years old and more.

With 31m cars on the road lets be conservative and say that only 1 in 310 falls into the 1973 - 1987 category (it must surely be a lot more). Multiply that by a typical £145 tax disc and you have a £14.5m loss to the public purse every single year.

Not a huge amount in the scale of these things but enough to close down a primary school or a couple of hospital wards.

And tax cuts of any sort aren't exactly flavour of the month right now with the size of our budget deficit.

 

[MercFanUk]

Back in 2006, there were 307,407 in the exemption category for pre 1973. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Excise_Duty#Exempt_vehicles)

Presuming they all would have paid £145 as in the above post, your looking at: £44,574,015.

It's not a small sum.

 

[219]

The shortfall that I highlighted in post #6.

As I was pointing out - that shortfall does not exist : you were presuming that owners of classic cars would choose to tax them rather than running them exemptly . Most people with these cars probably can't afford to pay the tax , so won't run them : they will keep them on SORN rather than pay the tax , so the shortfall you outline does not exist .

BTW road tax is £215 , not £145 .

 

[219]

How many 25 year old cars do you really see on the road?

I see virtually none.

Those that I do see are generally not driven by people who couldn't afford a newer one.

I speak as the owner of two vehicles that qualify for free road tax, and I think it should be extended to all vehicles 25 years old and more.

I run my D reg 500 every day , and I see a fair number of similar age cars on the road , of all makes .

While I could have a newer car , I don't want one . I do have several other cars and could use each of them turn about if it was not for the tax thing - I can only drive one at any given time , but I can't keep them all taxed all the time . While I will stump up one lot of road tax to keep one of my cars on the road , the rest are SORN'd ; if they were exempt , I'd have all of them on the road and would probably pay a bit more fuel duty etc , but the taxman is not going to lose anything by exempting cars which are currently kept on SORN .

Insurance isn't such a problem as it would cost me little more to keep them all on a Classic Policy , and I can keep them roadworthy easily enough .

 

[219]

Multiply that by a typical £145 tax disc

No cars of the age in question pay £145

It is either £215 , or £130 if you have a small engine ( relatively few older sub 1600cc engined cars surviving ) .

 

[SL300-24]

I would also say that most of the older cars may only be taxed for 6 months anyway say April to September and then sorned,so the loss to the government is probably less.......

 

[Scott_F]

As I was pointing out - that shortfall does not exist : you were presuming that owners of classic cars would choose to tax them rather than running them exemptly . Most people with these cars probably can't afford to pay the tax , so won't run them : they will keep them on SORN rather than pay the tax , so the shortfall you outline does not exist .

BTW road tax is £215 , not £145 .

So let's say that's an average of £180 a year on every old 70's and 80's car that is used as a daily driver. I have no idea of the number but would refer you to my earlier conservative estimate of 100,000. Even if one car is newly exempted then that is still a shortfall - such a policy isn't going to add money to the public coffers is it ?

 

[219]

If it means more cars actually getting used , rather than being kept on SORN , then they will be consuming fuel , having tyres fitted , other consumable parts , oils , paying for on street parking at times , being MOT'd , being insured - all of which generate tax income which would otherwise not be there , not to mention supporting jobs and helping to keep the economy going .

 

[Scott_F]

If it means more cars actually getting used , rather than being kept on SORN , then they will be consuming fuel , having tyres fitted , other consumable parts , oils , paying for on street parking at times , being MOT'd , being insured - all of which generate tax income which would otherwise not be there , not to mention supporting jobs and helping to keep the economy going .

I'm certain that there are far more 1973 -1987 cars in daily use than there are on SORN. For every Citroen SM, Jaguar E-Type or Jensen Interceptor currently declared SORN there will be dozens of Renault 5's, Vauxhall Astras and Ford Escorts that are daily drivers. And a lot of the real classics don't see the light of day during the winter months and a free tax disc won't tempt them out. Therefore, whilst I agree that free road tax may encourage certain cars to come out more often, there will still be a huge net revenue loss.

 

[clk208]

Plus there is the issue of fairness. I mean, if the road tax is a tax for wear caused to roads then how is it fair that an owner of a modern classic like a W123 weighing a measly 1.3 tons or so and doing only around 1000-2000 miles a year should pay the same as a 2 ton modern repmobile like a Mondeo or Insignia, many of which will be used to cover 60,000 miles or more per year and tearing up the tarmac with their additional torques.

Chances are the owner of the modern classic also has a more modern daily driver too on which they are paying additional road tax.

 

[219]

Plus there is the issue of fairness. I mean, if the road tax is a tax for wear caused to roads then how is it fair that an owner of a modern classic like a W123 weighing a measly 1.3 tons or so and doing only around 1000-2000 miles a year should pay the same as a 2 ton modern repmobile like a Mondeo or Insignia, many of which will be used to cover 60,000 miles or more per year and tearing up the tarmac with their additional torques.

Chances are the owner of the modern classic also has a more modern daily driver too on which they are paying additional road tax.

Exactly - even my W126 which I currently pay VED for only covers a fraction of the miles I do in my works van , and this year is on a 5000 miles classic car policy because it was significantly cheaper than the least expensive 'normal' insurance quote I received ; the mileage restriction is no particular hardship since I only did about 8000 miles in the car last year without trying to keep the miles down , and besides the van we have a Hyundai for everyday use ( soon to be replaced by a W124 ) .

While the tax issue forces me to only use one of my cars in any year , if the exemption were returned to the rolling status it originally had ( remember , it started out as a rolling exemption before it was changed - IIRC it was from 20 years old , not 25 as well ) I might be tempted to give my second W126 and my W123 a bit of infrequent use as well . I was recently offered a 1975 VW Beetle which I was tempted to buy but didn't due to the fact that it would lie on SORN , as it currently is , mostly due to the cost of VED . With the exemption , I could stick all these cars on a classic policy for not hugely more than I currently pay to insure just one , MOT them all and give each of them a little sparing use from time to time .

I can't afford or justify keeping them all taxed all the time and it is too much hassle taxing and SORN-ing individual cars to take them on and off the road as and when the whim takes me to use this one and that one .

Just now , the second 126 is an ongoing project which gets work done to it during the summer months while I am driving the first one , but I could easily MOT it and put it into service for minimal cost apart from the tax ; the 123 is in storage over in Falkirk , needs a bit of cosmetic work , tyres , battery and possibly an exhaust but could go back on the road without too much hassle . I still have to collect the W124 I bought , but it is too new to benefit as yet , and my Ponton is tax exempt anyway , but needs a fair bit of work before it goes back on the road .

 

[markjay]

Classic car ownerships is, in most cases, a hobby.

What would be the justification for tax exemptions?

To my mind, only the fact that can justify this is their infrequent use.

But this does bring up the issues of paying by the mile... my wife's car does less than 1,000 miles a year, so should according to this principal also pay less VED than a salesman who does 40,000 miles a year?

I am very sympathetic to classic car ownership, and given the space would consider it myself, but it is difficult to find the one defining factor that would make it justifiable - other than 'it had already existed beforehand so why take it away'.