Court Summons?

[BearFace]

Not a problem to answer this.

I don't have a bike of my own and have no desire to get one. I haven't had my own bike for over 20years.

I think you will find most bobbies don't have a problem with tinted visors if the conditions are good. Scratched visors are a much bigger problem and don't cost that much.

Thanks for that - the question wasn't agenda-driven at all, I was just curious. I'm disappointed (for you) that you miss out on the pleasures of riding for fun, but I don't doubt that the disadvantages finally started to outweigh the advantages. Fair enough, as they say.

Did what you have seen as a police rider influence the decision to stop, or were the reasons more personal? Again, I'll mind my own business if you'd prefer...

 

[Howard]

yawn..... another boring bike nut going off on one .....

 

[BearFace]

yawn..... another boring bike nut going off on one .....

Well, I suppose the best advice I can give you is..............if you don't want bike nuts like me boring the pants off you, you could always just refrain from talking out of your pants in the first place, Howard...

 

[glojo]

It might be a good idea if we all went back to talking about 'Court Summons'??

It's a beautiful day, the sun is shining and all is okee dokee.

Have a nice one,
John

 

[Spinal]

I'm confused..

You previously said you were on a filter light. How can you be on a right turn filter when the road you are crossing also has a green light?

This is hard to explain without a piece of pen and paper

......||| ||| //
......||| |||//
......||| |||
===|||//|||
......||| |||
......||| |*|
......||| |||
......ME
I can't draw with a pen and paper, and even less in ASCII art... but thats sort of the scenario... keeping in mind that i cant really show a filter lane... not the other lane at any other angle... anyhoo... The ME shows where I was coming from, I turned right at the traffic light when I was on the filter lane (indicated by the // ). Which leaves 4 "legal" roads the biker could have come from. Mine, the one on my left (before I turned), the one on my right (before I turned), and the one ahead of me (before I turned always). The one ahead of me and to my left I think are unlikely as they both would have red lights when I have a green. The one on my right (which as I turned became the one directly opposite to me, and finally the one behind me, to the left) is the one he most likely came from imo. (EDIT: sorry about the dots, the scripts remove series of blank spaces... EDIT2: the asterisk is where we collided... roughly I repeat, its hard to draw with letters - I need to get a poet to do that)

I'm talking to a lawyer today (finally...) , I should also receive a copy of the witness statement from my insurance company - so that might shed some light.

Oh, and mostly to BearFace (but partly to everyone), I am not saying I know I didn't do anything wrong. But I am also not saying I did something wrong... I am just saying, I'm not sure whos fault it was, and I wan't to shed some light. If I did something wrong, I take full responsability - getting off on a technicality in that case wouldn't be fair to the biker, who did get injured (and I've been trying to call unsucessfuly to find out how hes doing).

Oh well, its a live and learn scenario. I just hope I don't have a bike accident now as that looks a tad more painful. On the bright side, most of the programming of my thesis is done, with only and interface to create (the class that implements it is already done, so it should be basic) and a sample super-class that invokes everything from a nice menu... I've also submitted a job application to IBM, which seems like an interesting company, and my supervisor is acting kind (which is a new thing). Yups, today looks like a good day... I just don't need to think of the negative stuff

Michele

 

[grasmere]

well Michele, from what I think I already understood and from your 'drawing' I still cannot see why it is not the fault of the biker trying to get past you rather than you getting in his way.

ie if he came from the top rh lane coming down the drawing surely his light would have been on red
if he came from the left hand side at all, why was he trying to get past
and if he came from the right hand side surely his light would have been red too.

(Ahh - unless he came from a right hand side on a filter light to turn left (down the drawing) and expected you to be turning right and to go down the road (on the right) that he had come from . . . and of course did not expect you to do a u turn right in front of him - if that was the case I would still have though one of you would have seen the other )

remind us exactly which part of your car he hit and hence where you 'think' he came from ?

 

[glojo]

I am not saying I know I didn't do anything wrong. But I am also not saying I did something wrong... I am just saying, I'm not sure whos fault it was, and I wan't to shed some light. If I did something wrong, I take full responsability - getting off on a technicality in that case wouldn't be fair to the biker, who did get injured (and I've been trying to call unsucessfuly to find out how hes doing).

That is a very honest, noble gesture, but in this country most folks 'buy' their innocence. I have never blamed anyone and I do not intend doing so now.

However ..... If you were indicating to turn either right, or left and a vehicle attempted to overtake you, then my advice would be to emphasis that point to your solicitor. Note right from the beginning I have said do not use your family solicitor, nor the 'bloke' on the door at the court. I am pleased that you have taken the sensible option.

Overtaking on the approach to, or on a junction is a no, no, U-turns or driving into the path of an oncoming vehicle is also a no, no.

Drawing a sketch is an excellent idea, plus if you get the chance try to pace out the distances. Taking photographs will then put a picture in the mind of the person looking at the sketch. I am still very concerned about your not seeing the bike, but please do NOT try to guess where it come from.

I am sure your solicitor will give you good advice and if they advise you to plead not guilty then the case will most probably be adjourned to allow you to prepare your case.

Did you take advantage of Plodd's offer?

Good luck with the court case
Your exams
Plus your job application

Kind regards,
John

 

[grasmere]

but please do NOT try to guess where it come from.

agreed - you need to get your own version and diagram with distances, eg the aspect and position of your car at impact and how far how you gone throught the u turn when impact occurred and 'imagine' where the bike could have come from - can you get his version from someone, surely you can?

Again, my gut reaction is that the bike was at fault in this case, too close, too fast, no care and attention and thats if he came through on green

 

[blassberg]

getting off on a technicality in that case wouldn't be fair to the biker, who did get injured

Wondered what the stakes are for everyone involved and whether that affects the outcome ie what happens if you get done - to the biker; you; your insurance company or his insurance company? what happens if you don't get done - to the biker; you; your insurance company or his insurance company? Does the biker get done for undue care if you dont get done? etc

 

[219]

Returning to the bike debate for a moment , I have to say (as a former biker myself , Police trained Advanced Driver and now Fire Service Advanced Driver) that , whilst many bikers are skilful , responsible and considerate drivers there are many others who are not . In fairness there are also good and bad car drivers .

It is probably fair to say that whilst the majority of car drivers are neither very good nor very bad - most are of 'average ability' - the abilities of bikers probably covers a wider spectrum with a greater number of them being either of above average skills or else downright dangerous with little regard for their own mortality or the safety of others.

I had to attend a serious RTA last year involving a bike , I cannot comment much further as the case is still sub-judice , but a full accident investigation was carried out and one factor was the bike travelling over 70mph in a 30mph limit - so these things do happen.

I was a passenger in my girlfriend's car on Sunday , we had just dropped a friend off and she , having carried out proper mirror and shoulder checks was moving off when this bike was suddenly alongside blowing his horn ; he then continued ahead of us making all sorts of gestures pointing at his eyes ALL THE TIME LOOKING BACKWARDS AS HE CONTINUED TO DRIVE FORWARDS ! Jan was most upset by this incident , trying to convince both me and herself that she HAD checked behind before moving off and he was nowhere to be seen . This was confirmed later by our friend who from the pavement saw the bike come round the left hand bend about 40yds behind us 'like a bat out of hell'. As a passenger , I hadn't been looking so could not be sure what had happened .

Yesterday , I was driving on the A737 , a single carriageway 'A' road in the countryside very busy with holiday traffic . As a car driver I could not do anything other than follow the queue of traffic doing 40 or 50 mph . However this idiot on a bike overtook both me and another car going round a roundabout , cutting off in front of a car he could not possibly have been sure was not going to continue round the roundabout and disregarding the double line system being about two feet over the double solid white lines , weaving in and out of traffic , narrowly missing oncoming cars and causing cars he was cutting in in front of to brake . This was not 'filtering' this was suicidal lunacy .

Before I lost sight of him , his last 'act' was to overtake two or three cars alongside a junction where any one of them could have turned right .

On this last point , I have to take issue with Bearface's remark "Ask any rider how many times he's been safely filtering through traffic (which is perfectly legal, contrary to many car drivers' opinions...), only to have some pr*ck decide to turn right without checking his or her blind spot beforehand"

'Filtering safely' through slow moving traffic - where your speed is not much more than that of the other traffic and you are keeping your observations out , ready to avoid any hazards - is one thing ; OVERTAKING AT A JUNCTION IS NOT 'FILTERING' : if there is a possibility of 'some pr*ck' turning right then you should not be overtaking - you should at that point keep pace with other traffic and only continue filtering once safely past the junction .

Coming back to yesterday's idiot , he was , of course , suitably dressed for a sunny summer afternoon's biking , along with his pillion , who were both dressed in 'T' shirts , jeans and trainers !!!! Thankfully , I didn't come across any 'skinned rabbits' further down the road .

I could recount plenty of other incidents but I think these are sufficient to illustrate there are far too many idiot bikers out there and it is unfortunate that this reflects on the just as many good and responsible riders out there.

We could also no doubt go on to discuss idiotic driving on four wheels , but there are plenty of examples of this in other threads on this forum.

 

[Spinal]

Voila, talked to the lawyer. MANY drawings later, several visits to google earth and multimap and I now will plead not guilty. Some movie cahracter once said "We like". Anyhow, I'll make sure to keep everyone up-to-date on this, and see what happens.

Oh and,

Yesterday , I was driving on the A737 ,

sorry, that just made me laugh... Upon first glance I thought wow, he gets to pilot an airbus

Anyhow, I better be off signing papers and writing reports...
Michele

p.s. there is a reason I feel so clsoe to the biker, and its not that I ride a bike... its that I have a very weird tendency of getting injured every year. Like clockwork, once a year I'm in hospital getting a cast, getting something stitched, or getting a pair of crutches... I am safe for this year though, in october I fell down the stairs at the underground station trying to catch a train and tore a ligament... so I have until october to try jumping out of an airplane with a plastic bag


EDIT: I'm SURE I typed in a not there....

 

[Flasheart]

Voila, talked to the lawyer. MANY drawings later, several visits to google earth and multimap and I now will plead guilty.

is this due to you causing the accident or because you believe it to be expedient to just go guilty and move on with your life?

 

[Vips]

I have been following this thread and now I am completely lost

Spinal, I thought the whole reason for the members advising you was so that you will plead not guilty, if you are innocent. What has changed now. Why did your lawyer advice you to plead guilty? I may have missed something...probably alot, but the whole thread has completely confused me and now I have a headache!!

 

[glojo]

Thanks very much for the update, and MOST important...... do NOT worry about it. What will happen, will happen. You can sleep easier now, knowing you are doing the right thing.

Your solicitor will have got a much better idea of the incident than anyone here, so sit back, relax and get on with your life.

On a more serious note, I would thoroughly recommend a driving course. I am not being cheeky and I accept this incident may well have been a one off, but everyone on this forum that has taken any type of advanced driving course will tell you just how much it improved their driving. You are a young, clever person, that would learn a lot from this type of course?


Good luck again with everything,
John

 

[Alfie]

.......................................................

Oh and,

sorry, that just made me laugh... Upon first glance I thought wow, he gets to pilot an airbus

Guess what Don777 gets to pilot when he's at work?

 

[jdrrco]

Thanks very much for the update, and MOST important...... do NOT worry about it. What will happen, will happen. You can sleep easier now, knowing you are doing the right thing.

Your solicitor will have got a much better idea of the incident than anyone here, so sit back, relax and get on with your life.

On a more serious note, I would thoroughly recommend a driving course. I am not being cheeky and I accept this incident may well have been a one off, but everyone on this forum that has taken any type of advanced driving course will tell you just how much it improved their driving. You are a young, clever person, that would learn a lot from this type of course?


Good luck again with everything,
John

I couldn't agree more. I did my IAM test when I was 18 and went on to become an observer. It's never helped my insurance premiums but is so worthwhile. The IAM give sessions for free (in your car with your petrol).

Again, not suggesting you need them, but I'm sure you'd enjoy it too.

All the best.

 

[BearFace]

Returning to the bike debate for a moment , I have to say (as a former biker myself , Police trained Advanced Driver and now Fire Service Advanced Driver) that , whilst many bikers are skilful , responsible and considerate drivers there are many others who are not . In fairness there are also good and bad car drivers

You make a very reasonable point, however the objections have been to certain comments in this thread which have blatantly generalised and directly labelled "most" bikers as irresponsible and dangerous. This is completely without basis and therefore the thread has veered off course while those of us who actually have a clue what we're talking about take issue with those who clearly don't....

It is probably fair to say that whilst the majority of car drivers are neither very good nor very bad - most are of 'average ability' - the abilities of bikers probably covers a wider spectrum with a greater number of them being either of above average skills or else downright dangerous with little regard for their own mortality or the safety of others.

I totally agree. There are inevitably a few hooligans around for whom biking is just another outlet for their anger or lack of sexual prowess. However these clowns are part of a distinct minority and not by any means representitive of the "norm" in biking.

Amusingly, I find that these pr*cks are often the same people who, when it comes to a track day, are the ones posting diabolical lap times and/or wiping out when they realise they've misjudged a braking zone. They have no concept of finesse or control, they're just heavy-handed and over-zealous...

Back to car drivers though...............and let's be honest here. The danger from cars towards bikers doesn't just come from the nutcases in souped-up Subarus, does it? Mr Average in his Mondeo/Vectra/Whatever is just as likely to pull out from a side street onto one of us and end our biking career as Mr Subaru is to hit us head on while overtaking on a solid white line. The dangers from cars are significantly greater than the dangers from bikers to car drivers. We're a vulnerable breed.

Interestingly, in France and on the continent in general, bikers are treated with a degree of reverence and respect that is notably lacking here in the UK, and yet conversely, bikers tend to move around at greater speeds than they do over here. I wonder why (and that isn't rhetorical...).

 

[Mr E]

Based purely on my own experience...

I find bikers abroad afford more respect to car drivers (see above comments about various antics) - and I said bikers, not scooter riders..... I'm a great believer in "what goes round comes around" and the general feeling among peeps I know in France, Holland and Germany is that bikers aren't loonies, but road users. Unfortunately the antics of a minority (and in this area I'd have to dispute that, again based on where I live and my own driving/riding experience) mean that all bike riders are treated with the same contempt.

I toodle a few times a year on my Dad's Harley which is enough for me - my dose of high risk sports after a few years of extreme skiing and climbing. However, the vast majority of riders I know - regularly grossly exceed the speed limit (it's a clear road........) and ride in a way that intimidates or comes across as agressive. They know better than to complain to me.......

Mind you, I find that the peeps I know abroad are more laid back anyway - life is too short to waste time fuming about other road users so i try not too, but all too often start of down that road.

 

[219]

Yes , respect and courtesy go a long way .

Year before last I rented a scooter whilst on holiday in Italy , my first time on two wheels in about 15 years . It seemed very strange that they didn't want to see my driving licence , only my passport ! Or do you not need a licence in Italy for a scooter ?

Anyway , my point is that I found Italy to be such a wacky , bizzarre place to drive , certainly out in the countryside , small villages etc . ANYTHING GOES ! Drive on the left , drive on the right , pedestrians walk in the middle of the road , cars , bikes , scooters , pushbikes , people all mix it . People who want to go into a shop just stop and abandon their vehicle and get out ! Everyone just mills around everyone else , yet there are no accidents , no hornblowing , no road rage !!!! How it works I'm not sure but work it does - I never saw any accidents nor even dented cars.

The cities are different - Rome is not so different to any other large city - but out in the country it's a different world.

 

[grasmere]

You can sleep easier now, knowing you are doing the right thing.

hhmm - like others I am now confused - I understand this was not an accident (ie unavoidable incident ) but a crash due to someone being negligent - I have still not heard anything to suggest that the biker is innocent (nothing against bikers btw)

Just because he was injured does not mean you Michele caused the crash and hence are 'guilty' - so why the change of plea? Where did the bike come from, what speed was he doing, why did he run into you if you were doing a legitimate u-turn with lights on green - so many questions so little information