EV's and battery damage & other woes means I wont buy one

[MikeInWimbledon]

The links above demonstrate that McKinsey have a lot to say on the subject of flogging EV's successfully. Hence my reference.

Nope, this demonstrate that McKinsey publish documents on the car industry and government regulation. Not a lot of documents, because the industry doesn't use McKinsey much. It has its own strategy infrastructure. As McKinsey state - very clearly - in your article, EV's are a threat to profitability in the Industry.

There is no gold in them there hills.

Now, AI, that IS an El Dorado, which is why they publish far more. Most corporate types don't have a figging clue what AI is, and continue to confuse it with automation.

 

[markjay]

The links above demonstrate that McKinsey have a lot to say on the subject of flogging EV's successfully. Hence my reference.

Not a bad thing, surely?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

"The Children's table" at Christmas dinner was interesting. A dozen little ones. The parents were at the other end - with the wine.

They're working for Apple, Google, Snapchat, post PhD tech optical research, a Big Four consultancy, Law, Recruitment, an Investment bank and a Fund manager.

Lot of vegans, lot of worry about climate change. and "the future."

Well-heeled: late 20's, probably earning £150- £200k per household

Not one company car. Not one working anywhere near the EV industry . All working down the usual mines.

Not one showing any interest in running an EV, or even a hybrid.

Not one prospecting for an EV or alternative mobility El Dorado.

 

[ChipChop]

Not a bad thing, surely?

Indeed. They have some good suggestions to counter obvious EV issues.

Take the issue of running out of power mid journey. That EV 'fear' could be addressed by OEM's having their own dedicated on call low battery emergency services.

Does such a thing exist for any EV manufacturer? Hyundai / Tesla EV battery assist? Or in an EV world where apps and add on's generate after sales profit would actually employing people to be on call 24/7 be an alien concept?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The links above demonstrate that McKinsey have a lot to say on the subject of flogging EV's successfully. Hence my reference.

HaVe a lot to say, or had a lot to say? Research from 2019 and forecasting innovations for 2020.

It’s full of revolutionary ideas like bundling home “wall boxes” with new car sales, charging for on-demand services like remote access “connected” services, and monetising the rich data generated by connected cars and smartphones themselves or through data aggregators.

That was a poor effort from McKinsey even in 2019/20 when it was written.

 

[markjay]

Indeed. They have some good suggestions to counter obvious EV issues.

Take the issue of running out of power mid journey. That EV 'fear' could be addressed by OEM's having their own dedicated on call low battery emergency services.

Does such a thing exist for any EV manufacturer? Hyundai / Tesla EV battery assist? Or in an EV world where apps and add on's generate after sales profit would actually employing people to be on call 24/7 be an alien concept?

I have that service via my LV motor policy - they have a dedicated product for EVs and that includes emergency charge if needed. Most likely provided by RAC / AA/ Green Flag etc (didn't have a need for it yet).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The marketing spiel positioning EV's as motorings new El Dorado is really fascinating. Well done McKinsey and Company!

McKinsey’s reference to El Dorado is quite different to what you allude to in your post above. You imply that EVs will bring riches to the motoring industry. Based upon the tone of your posts on this and related topics, then I would interpret that to mean that this riches and bountiful profits would be at the considerable cost of the everyday person in the street or “Joe Public”.

Whereas what McKinsey actually say - when highlighting the importance of an Omnichanel approach to marketing - is “Make your online channel an information “El Dorado” for EV prospects, who want to know about these vehicles and are upward of 50 percent more interested in purchasing cars online than traditional buyers are. OEMs should therefore invest significantly in their digital presence to provide easy access to information about important customer concerns”.

So what they’re saying is that when a prospect is on the hook - and 50% are prepared to buy their next car online - then make sure that all of the information is available to them to conclude the decision to buy and follow through with the purchase there and then, including information which highlights and addresses common concerns. Not quite as blooming dramatic though is it.

 

[ChipChop]

McKinsey’s reference to El Dorado is quite different to what you allude to in your post above. You imply that EVs will bring riches to the motoring industry. Based upon the tone of your posts on this and related topics, then I would interpret that to mean that this riches and bountiful profits would be at the considerable cost of the everyday person in the street or “Joe Public”.

Whereas what McKinsey actually say - when highlighting the importance of an Omnichanel approach to marketing - is “Make your online channel an information “El Dorado” for EV prospects, who want to know about these vehicles and are upward of 50 percent more interested in purchasing cars online than traditional buyers are. OEMs should therefore invest significantly in their digital presence to provide easy access to information about important customer concerns”.

So what they’re saying is that when a prospect is on the hook - and 50% are prepared to buy their next car online - then make sure that all of the information is available to them to conclude the decision to buy and follow through with the purchase there and then, including information which highlights and addresses common concerns. Not quite as blooming dramatic though is it.

As a fan of Werner Herzog's Aguirre, the Wrath of God, madness and folly would be a more accurate synopsis of the search for El Dorado.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Indeed. They have some good suggestions to counter obvious EV issues.

Take the issue of running out of power mid journey. That EV 'fear' could be addressed by OEM's having their own dedicated on call low battery emergency services.

Does such a thing exist for any EV manufacturer? Hyundai / Tesla EV battery assist? Or in an EV world where apps and add on's generate after sales profit would actually employing people to be on call 24/7 be an alien concept?

EV Boost Mobile Charging System | Innovation | RAC

We developed the first lightweight, mobile electric vehicle charger which means our vans can give you a 10-mile charge to help you get to the next charge point.

www.rac.co.uk

Best Roadside EV Charging Services in UK | EVBOOST

EVBOOST offers roadside EV charging as a service to different areas in the UK. Ran out of charge mid-journey? Give us a call and we will be there to help you!

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AA Technical Developments| AA

The AA's technical developments

www.theaa.com

How often do people run out of petrol, and of those who do, how many could not have avoided it? Those who need the extra comfort of a 24/7 on call low battery emergency service can take comfort from the fact that the breakdown assistance they already use have this capability. Not really a need for the manufacturers to do it, their breakdown assistance partners do it for them.

 

[BTB 500]

The issue with the cost of energy for EVs, is that it varies considerably.

You can charge at home for well under 10p per kWh, you can charge on the street at 30-50p per kWh, and you can charge using ultrafast chargers at motorway services and pay 70-90p per kWh. And, before calculating the average cost, the spanner in the works is that you can charge at various locations for free.

It's a no-brainer that in the majority of cases the cost of energy per-mile for EV will be significantly less than that of an ICE car, and it's also a no-brainer that this is in part due to the low taxation on electricity.

If for example you get 3 miles per kWh from an EV and pay 50p per kWh for on-street charging that's 16.6p per mile. With unleaded at 134.9p per litre a petrol ICE that does 40 mpg has a fuel cost of 15.3p per mile. So cheaper mileage isn't a given, even with the current low taxation on electricity for EVs compared to diesel & unleaded.

Of course due to charging losses EVs use more power than the kWh consumed while driving, so this won't give a true cost per mile. These losses vary a lot can but can be up to 30% or so when charging via a 240V granny cable at home. So in the worst case your cost per kWh when driving could effectively be closer to 13p than the 10p mentioned (still pretty cheap, if you can charge at home).

Fleets ‘losing’ electricity when charging electric vehicles (VIDEO)

AFP investigates as fleets report being unable to account for up to 15% of the electricity used to charge EVs, with charging cables a potential culprit.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

As mentioned before if you use pre-heating/pre-conditioning while hooked up (fairly common at this time of year, I would guess) then the extra power consumed by this before leaving also ought to be factored in to get a true picture of the journey cost.

 

[Noitz]

Basic rule of EV ownership: charge when you can, not when you have to. And preferably at the 2 - 3p per mile home rate, rather at commercial charger rates.

I would agree with that basic rule, but what you omitted to mention is the time taken to recharge. To fill my car from reserve to full takes approx. 4 mins, plus time paying at the kiosk if it's not a 'card only' pump. As an example for a non EV driver, how long does it take to top up from, say, 40% to 80% using a fast charger?

 

[JHS]

I would seriously consider an EV if I could find one in the spec and price that I favour in an ICE. However, on a trip to rain swept Cornwall recently we pulled into a services near Gloucester, the one everyone uses, and observed several EVs charging and others waiting for a vacant charger. The filling station was also busy refuelling ICEs.I wondered what the future would be if ALL of the cars in the services were EVs and required refuelling in the same proportion as the ICEs. Expand that across the whole country and that is a humongous extra load of electricity (and time) required. I accept that recharging times will come down in the future, but I am equally certain that the electricity required to recharge will not come down.
Are we in danger of creating a new monster in order to have cleaner city air?
Is there a better way?

 

[ChipChop]

Now, AI, that IS an El Dorado, which is why they publish far more. Most corporate types don't have a figging clue what AI is, and continue to confuse it with automation.

And all the while when everyone was busy worrying about the rise of AI they forgot about the bollards

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I would agree with that basic rule, but what you omitted to mention is the time taken to recharge. To fill my car from reserve to full takes approx. 4 mins, plus time paying at the kiosk if it's not a 'card only' pump. As an example for a non EV driver, how long does it take to top up from, say, 40% to 80% using a fast charger?

Obviously you know the answer to that question.

About as long as it takes to have a pee and buy a cup of coffee, depending on the charger. But not so long as to take the time to actually drink a cup of coffee.

It's hard to understand why people drive out of their way into petrol stations, when overnight charging at home takes a minute to connect and a minute to unplug.

Most EV owners, such as your chum, start each day with 300 miles "in the tank." As well as that £4,000 a year company car tax saving. (Call it £80 a working week)

 

[clk320x]

I’m a fence sitter. I don’t own an ev, but I’ve worked on and driven a few. My pal has had a tesla m3 and currently a Hyundai as company cars (no choice in the matter), and he was ok with them until the other day when he needed to charge on the way home from a distant site visit. The car chose him a charging point en route. He arrived to find one working charger, in use, and a queue of 4 waiting. He didn’t have enough range left to reach an alternative charger. He didn’t get home until midnight, and was pretty pissed off.

Bet he wished he kept the Tesla…

 

[clk320x]

I would seriously consider an EV if I could find one in the spec and price that I favour in an ICE. However, on a trip to rain swept Cornwall recently we pulled into a services near Gloucester, the one everyone uses, and observed several EVs charging and others waiting for a vacant charger. The filling station was also busy refuelling ICEs.I wondered what the future would be if ALL of the cars in the services were EVs and required refuelling in the same proportion as the ICEs. Expand that across the whole country and that is a humongous extra load of electricity (and time) required. I accept that recharging times will come down in the future, but I am equally certain that the electricity required to recharge will not come down.
Are we in danger of creating a new monster in order to have cleaner city air?
Is there a better way?

These are the future…

Gridserve announces new electric vehicle fast charging hubs

Gridserve will open more than 20 ‘electric hubs’ offering high-power electric vehicle (EV) charge points at motorway service stations across the UK by Q2 2022.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I would seriously consider an EV if I could find one in the spec and price that I favour in an ICE. However, on a trip to rain swept Cornwall recently we pulled into a services near Gloucester, the one everyone uses, and observed several EVs charging and others waiting for a vacant charger. The filling station was also busy refuelling ICEs.I wondered what the future would be if ALL of the cars in the services were EVs and required refuelling in the same proportion as the ICEs. Expand that across the whole country and that is a humongous extra load of electricity (and time) required. I accept that recharging times will come down in the future, but I am equally certain that the electricity required to recharge will not come down.
Are we in danger of creating a new monster in order to have cleaner city air?
Is there a better way?

You and I are going to have to wait quite a while for that EV. It's ICE for the foreseeable future.

Yes, petrol stations are already converting to EV. See all the oil company annual reports. It's a massive money spinner. You drive in, plug in, hop in to buy yourself some overpriced rubbish groceries and cakes, walk out to the car, unplug and drive off.

And for the service areas, it's just the parking bays that get new chargers, they don't even bother to convert the petrol station

"If" Markjay ever sells me his Ioniq 5 - at the right price - I'm certain I would need to use a commercial charger - in the UK - about eight times a year. I can't see much of a problem finding one.

How did you do the numbers to work out that electricity consumption across the UK will go up? UK electricity consumption dropped 19% in Q3 of 2023 - because of the prices.

The national grid reckons that it's got one trillion kWh coming on stream within the next five years.
Take an easy number and call it enough to power three trillion miles a year by British EV owners.
Or roughly a million miles per EV owner, assuming three million EV's in use by 2028

UK hits major clean energy milestone | National Grid Group

The UK has hit a major milestone as we pass the one trillionth kilowatt hours (kWh) of electricity generated from renewable energy sources, the equivalent of everyone in the UK watching every James Bond movie 13 times a day, every day for a year.

www.nationalgrid.com

 

[stressd]

Is there a better way?

Not until they come up with a new type of battery with a far greater range and faster charging. Or an alternative like hydrogen.
As you pointed out, the other problem is the queues waiting to charge. An average forecourt could probably fill 80 cars / hour. To charge that number of cars per hour, imagine how much space they would need for all those cars sat charging.

 

[Bellow]

It's annoying when you run a 600 mile petrol tank down to near empty, and then find there isn't a petrol station nearby, or that it's closed.

 

[JHS]

These are the future…

Gridserve announces new electric vehicle fast charging hubs

Gridserve will open more than 20 ‘electric hubs’ offering high-power electric vehicle (EV) charge points at motorway service stations across the UK by Q2 2022.

www.fleetnews.co.uk