EV's . . . . No Surprise There Then . . .

[neilrr]

not just aircraft that pollute. southampton suffers terribly from pollution when the cruise liners are in dock and the engines in a big ship basically burn tar so not very "green"

Private Eye 1536 4.12.2020

 

[Big Janner]

not just aircraft that pollute. southampton suffers terribly from pollution when the cruise liners are in dock and the engines in a big ship basically burn tar so not very "green"

+1
I think you'll find it is a dirty, tar like substance, being what remains, when refiners have finished their work and have waste to dispose off
It's the waste

 

[baxlin]

Seeing the pic a few pages back of the compromised hybrid estate boot reminded me of the boot of my Lexus hybrid, the drive batteries being under the boot floor, the usual home of the spare wheel. So Lexus provided the gunge etc in lieu of a spare.

BUT... they also included a large plastic bag, carrying the instruction to place the dirty, punctured wheel into it, to stop getting the boot dirty.

What they expected you to -
A) use to lift the car, as there was no jack,
B) drive on when the car only had 3 wheels, I have no idea......

 

[markjay]

oops..

Aston Martin in row over 'sockpuppet PR firm' pushing anti-electric vehicle study (msn.com)

They are looking at the Carbon footprint.... even if they are right, the pressing issue is to drive pollution away from city centres, were people are falling ill and in some case dying as result of exhaust gas emissions.

As far as I am concerned, ICE cars can continue to be made, and sold in the UK, in perpetuity, as long as they are banned from built-up areas where people live or work.

Farmers potting-around in their Diesel TD5s, Landed Gentry who drive around the estate in their Vogue V8s, or petrolheads who track their 1000bhp road-legal beasts should all be allowed to continue and do so to their heart's content, as long as they do it far away from populated areas.

 

[190]

I think you'll find it is a dirty, tar like substance, being what remains, when refiners have finished their work and have waste to dispose off
It's the waste

If you look at the whole spectrum of distillates from crude oil, calorific value increases as you progress down through the grades. so diesel has a higher calorific value than petrol and the heavier oils are higher than diesel. The thick stuff that big engines run on has the highest calorific value of the lot and that's one of the reasons they use it.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

They are looking at the Carbon footprint.... even if they are right, the pressing issue is to drive pollution away from city centres, were people are falling ill and in some case dying as result of exhaust gas emissions.

As far as I am concerned, ICE cars can continue to be made, and sold in the UK, in perpetuity, as long as they are banned from built-up areas where people live or work.

Farmers potting-around in their Diesel TD5s, Landed Gentry who drive around the estate in their Vogue V8s, or petrolheads who track their 1000bhp road-legal beasts should all be allowed to continue and do so to their heart's content, as long as they do it far away from populated areas.

More a case of getting turkey farmers to decide on their favourite Xmas dinner.....

 

[Deleted member 37751]

They are looking at the Carbon footprint.... even if they are right, the pressing issue is to drive pollution away from city centres, were people are falling ill and in some case dying as result of exhaust gas emissions.

As far as I am concerned, ICE cars can continue to be made, and sold in the UK, in perpetuity, as long as they are banned from built-up areas where people live or work.

Farmers potting-around in their Diesel TD5s, Landed Gentry who drive around the estate in their Vogue V8s, or petrolheads who track their 1000bhp road-legal beasts should all be allowed to continue and do so to their heart's content, as long as they do it far away from populated areas.

Even though I’ve promoted EV’s on this thread, I’m more than comfortable with the above scenarios (and more) it’s just that I’m coming from the angle that - irrespective of government pressure - EV’s will replace ICE whether people think it’s a big scam, whether you are just set in your ways and don’t like change, whether they’re petrolheads & think EV owners are all vegan pussies or that you’re just concerned where all the electricity is going to come from, they’re all completely valid concerns, but none of them will stop the momentum they have now.

It may be the case that hydrogen overtakes EV as a viable alternative, that’s great too, and I’m sure I’ll then see EV owners decrying hydrogen in the same way that IVE owners are now...

 

[Deleted member 37751]

More rowing backwards...

 

[Big Janner]

Following on from the opening of the 'All electric' service station in Braintree and having nothing better to do for the next half hour or so, I thought I would work out what my going EV, would really mean with regards time.



I have been doing about 14,000 miles a year since I retired (6+ years ago)

My car has a 15 gallon tank and does 24mpg, so, a tank full of fuel will take me 360 miles

This means I will 'fill up' 39 times in the year

Each fill at the garage, using the pay at pump, takes about 6 minutes, maximum

So, in a year, I spend 39 x 6 minutes, filling up; 3hr 54min / yr



If I had an electric car and lived within a mile of the Braintree charging station;

A charge to 80% capacity takes 20 minutes (their figure)

This will take the EV 250 miles or so (their figure)

14,000 miles ÷ 250 = 56 'charge ups'

Each charge up is 20 mins, so 20 x 56 = 18hr 40min / yr



With an EV, I'd be spending 10x longer, standing around, refuelling my car.

Another reason that EV's are not fit for purpose

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Following on from the opening of the 'All electric' service station in Braintree and having nothing better to do for the next half hour or so, I thought I would work out what my going EV, would really mean with regards time.



I have been doing about 14,000 miles a year since I retired (6+ years ago)

My car has a 15 gallon tank and does 24mpg, so, a tank full of fuel will take me 360 miles

This means I will 'fill up' 39 times in the year

Each fill at the garage, using the pay at pump, takes about 6 minutes, maximum

So, in a year, I spend 39 x 6 minutes, filling up; 3hr 54min / yr



If I had an electric car and lived within a mile of the Braintree charging station;

A charge to 80% capacity takes 20 minutes (their figure)

This will take the EV 250 miles or so (their figure)

14,000 miles ÷ 250 = 56 'charge ups'

Each charge up is 20 mins, so 20 x 56 = 18hr 40min / yr



With an EV, I'd be spending 10x longer, standing around, refuelling my car.

Another reason that EV's are not fit for purpose

Or if you had the ability to charge at home, at work, or another location such as a shopping centre or supermarket, then you could spend 56 minutes connecting your car when you park, and 56 minutes disconnecting when you're about to drive away, reducing the time you spend refueling by a factor of three.

Another reason why EVs are better than ICE cars (if you have the ability to charge one and don't regularly drive distances greater than the range allows, and even then depending upon the model you may be away again by the time you bought a coffee, had a wee and sent a text message).

 

[Swotty]

Or if you had the ability to charge at home, at work, or another location such as a shopping centre or supermarket, then you could spend 56 minutes connecting your car when you park, and 56 minutes disconnecting when you're about to drive away, reducing the time you spend refueling by a factor of three.

Another reason why EVs are better than ICE cars (if you have the ability to charge one and don't regularly drive distances greater than the range allows, and even then depending upon the model you may be away again by the time you bought a coffee, had a wee and sent a text message).

Loads of ifs, there BD!

I can see EVs being the preferred i.e. only form of transport where people are not permitted/do not need to travel far.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Loads of ifs, there BD!

I can see EVs being the preferred i.e. only form of transport where people are not permitted/do not need to travel far.

There are, but not in the way you imply, they’re parallel IF statements and not serial IF statements.

The ifs offer choice, for those without the ability to charge at home can charge in other places.

Whilst there are plenty of people for whom an EV is not suitable, there are plenty more who could only see benefits.

 

[ChrisEdu]

What are servicing and repair costs like on EVs and hybrids compared to ICE?

There are, but not in the way you imply, they’re parallel IF statements and not serial IF statements.

The ifs offer choice, for those without the ability to charge at home can charge in other places.

Whilst there are plenty of people for whom an EV is not suitable, there are plenty more who could only see benefits.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What are servicing and repair costs like on EVs and hybrids compared to ICE?

Not sure. There’s less to do when servicing an EV though.

 

[190]

Not sure. There’s less to do when servicing an EV though.

When did less actual work ever reduce servicing costs

What will interest me is if FMBSH continues to hold such a premium for buyers when there is no engine that can be neglected by not being serviced.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Following on from the opening of the 'All electric' service station in Braintree and having nothing better to do for the next half hour or so, I thought I would work out what my going EV, would really mean with regards time.



I have been doing about 14,000 miles a year since I retired (6+ years ago)

My car has a 15 gallon tank and does 24mpg, so, a tank full of fuel will take me 360 miles

This means I will 'fill up' 39 times in the year

Each fill at the garage, using the pay at pump, takes about 6 minutes, maximum

So, in a year, I spend 39 x 6 minutes, filling up; 3hr 54min / yr



If I had an electric car and lived within a mile of the Braintree charging station;

A charge to 80% capacity takes 20 minutes (their figure)

This will take the EV 250 miles or so (their figure)

14,000 miles ÷ 250 = 56 'charge ups'

Each charge up is 20 mins, so 20 x 56 = 18hr 40min / yr



With an EV, I'd be spending 10x longer, standing around, refuelling my car.

Another reason that EV's are not fit for purpose

I know this is a waste of time trying to convince you because you’re so entrenched in your views that they could invent a solar panel for EV’s that meant the they never had to be charged and you’d find something else to complain about but in your little theory above you haven’t taken into account charging at home so, in theory, you are actually spending more time at the fuel pump than you would do charging an EV because you’d simply plug it in and leave it instead....

 

[Dickster]

I know this is a waste of time trying to convince you because you’re so entrenched in your views that they could invent a solar panel for EV’s that meant the they never had to be charged and you’d find something else to complain about but in your little theory above you haven’t taken into account charging at home so, in theory, you are actually spending more time at the fuel pump than you would do charging an EV because you’d simply plug it in and leave it instead....

Well, not being funny but what he said is true and is the biggest barrier to EV - apart from the ludicrous cost of course. Until the charging problem is overcome (ie hydrogen instead of batteries) it’s not practical for most people.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Well, not being funny but what he said is true and is the biggest barrier to EV - apart from the ludicrous cost of course. Until the charging problem is overcome (ie hydrogen instead of batteries) it’s not practical for most people.

That’s simply not true. Most people do do not regularly drive further than the range of an EV, and of those people many have the ability to charge at home. Some more have the ability to charge at work. And all have the ability to charge in places they’ll go to anyway, like shopping centres, supermarkets, car parks, etc.

For an EV to make sense drivers need to stop thinking of EVs as an ICE car, and instead think of them simply as a car, and stop trying to apply what they know about refuelling an ICE to recharging an EV - their power source and powertrain is completely different so why expect them to be refuelled in the same way?

Why would an EV ever be as good as ICE car at refuelling in the way that an ICE car does? An EV can be charged at fuel station or service station, but an ICE can’t easily or safely refuel at home or at work, or some other public 0lace which is not a service station! I find it intriguing that people expect to refuel in the same way despite the obvious difference.

 

[Dickster]

That’s simply not true. Most people do do not regularly drive further than the range of an EV, and of those people many have the ability to charge at home. Some more have the ability to charge at work. And all have the ability to charge in places they’ll go to anyway, like shopping centres, supermarkets, car parks, etc.

For an EV to make sense drivers need to stop thinking of EVs as an ICE car, and instead think of them simply as a car, and stop trying to apply what they know about refuelling an ICE to recharging an EV - their power source and powertrain is completely different so why expect them to be refuelled in the same way?

Why would an EV ever be as good as ICE car at refuelling in the way that an ICE car does? An EV can be charged at fuel station or service station, but an ICE can’t easily or safely refuel at home or at work, or some other public 0lace which is not a service station! I find it intriguing that people expect to refuel in the same way despite the obvious difference.

With respect yes it is. EV is currently a lifestyle choice compared to ICE. If you go any distance you have to plan the charging. And the cost remains the other major obstacle.

A friend of mine has a Tesla and has taken it to Europe, and he always has a story to tell around charging and range issues - he still loves the car.

And an EV as a small second car would suit my household, but I’m not prepared to pay the ridiculous prices.

 

[PXW]

We have two EVs in the household and we do have a home charger. We very rarely need to charge anywhere other than at home - mile for mile I waste a lot less time refuelling the EVs than I did refuelling the ICE cars. The average UK car travels about 8000 miles per annum, so about 22 miles per day. There is barely an EV on sale that can’t do that comfortably.

Even when we do do a longer trip that requires charging en route, the charge time is usually less than the meal/comfort break we would take anyway. But, as I have posted previously, the EV fuelling experience requires a different mindset. Once you have got your head around that, there is really no downside on the fuelling regime. And of course the cost per mile to drive the EV is a lot less than the cost of conventional fuel - so even if I did have to spend a few more minutes (which I don’t) it still saves a significant amount of money.