EV's . . . . No Surprise There Then . . .

[Dickster]

We have two EVs in the household and we do have a home charger. We very rarely need to charge anywhere other than at home - mile for mile I waste a lot less time refuelling the EVs than I did refuelling the ICE cars. The average UK car travels about 8000 miles per annum, so about 22 miles per day. There is barely an EV on sale that can’t do that comfortably.

Even when we do do a longer trip that requires charging en route, the charge time is usually less than the meal/comfort break we would take anyway. But, as I have posted previously, the EV fuelling experience requires a different mindset. Once you have got your head around that, there is really no downside on the fuelling regime. And of course the cost per mile to drive the EV is a lot less than the cost of conventional fuel - so even if I did have to spend a few more minutes (which I don’t) it still saves a significant amount of money.

In regard to the cost of fuel saved, how much did your two EVs cost to buy?

 

[PXW]

The first was 48k which was about the same as I spent on the Merc it replaced. The second was 22k which was about the same as the mini it replaced. I am still up by about £350-400 per month in fuel costs.

 

[Dickster]

The first was 48k which was about the same as I spent on the Merc it replaced. The second was 22k which was about the same as the mini it replaced. I am still up by about £350-400 per month in fuel costs.

Indeed so you get my point. That’s a lot of fuel for £350-£400 pm.

 

[Dickster]

Indeed so you get my point. That’s a lot of fuel for £350-£400 pm.

When I can buy an secondhand electric motorcycle for £7500, the equivalent of a BMW R1200GSA I’ll be all over it for my commute into work.

 

[PXW]

Indeed so you get my point. That’s a lot of fuel for £350-£400 pm.

I absolutely do not get your point. That monthly sum is what I now do not have to spend.

 

[Dickster]

I absolutely do not get your point. That monthly sum is what I now do not have to spend.

Haha! The point is people like you buying EVs are spending £50k.

don’t get me wrong if I had the money.......

 

[Big Janner]

I know this is a waste of time trying to convince you because you’re so entrenched in your views that they could invent a solar panel for EV’s that meant the they never had to be charged and you’d find something else to complain about but in your little theory above you haven’t taken into account charging at home so, in theory, you are actually spending more time at the fuel pump than you would do charging an EV because you’d simply plug it in and leave it instead....

A waste of your time, not mine, your making uninformed assumptions about people you don't know, speaks volumes about you and your thinking, none of it particulary pleasant.

If you look at my posts here and in other threads, you'll find that I am not particularly entrenched in any particular view.
Right now, my assertion is that EV's are not yet fit for purpose
No, I didn't allow for home charging, deliberately so.
A decent home charger will take about 8 hours, so, overnight charging means effective use of dead time.
Even with 75% of charging done at home, EV's in their current iteration, mean much more time thumb twiddling, than IC.
I have no doubt that develoments in battery technology will improve all areas of their use, but, given the reasons for their introduction, the environmental cost of their blanket introduction will, if changes are not made, be massive.
With the whole world heading into the eV market, the drive to improve production methods wanes

 

[PXW]

Dickster, I really don’t have to justify my spending choices to you. I merely pointed out that I didn’t actually spend more on the EVs than I previously spent on ICEs. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your view on the economics or practicality of EVs. Maybe they don’t work for you, but they do for us.

 

[Dickster]

solid state batteries might be a game changer, but ten minute charge times will require decent chargers everywhere. it’ll be ten years before the cars are affordable.

 

[Dickster]

Dickster, I really don’t have to justify my spending choices to you. I merely pointed out that I didn’t actually spend more on the EVs than I previously spent on ICEs. Sorry if that doesn’t fit your view on the economics or practicality of EVs. Maybe they don’t work for you, but they do for us.

Apologies it wasn’t meant like that. The point that I was making badly is that few people can afford them. Like I said, if I could afford one I would have a small runabout as it would be good for local journeys.

and for what it’s worth I have recommended them to some clients for tax reasons.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

....

 

[Darrell]

I hardly ever drive and my wife does 6 miles a day for her commute. We visit friends and relatives outside of London approx 6 times a year. The car is used for the odd shop but we get our food delivered by Ocado.

I live in a cul-de-sac where the cars are parked opposite the houses rather than on individual driveways so charging is going to be a problem.

Is it worth me forking out for an EV and is it going to be a load of aggro?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Indeed so you get my point. That’s a lot of fuel for £350-£400 pm.

By “up” @PXW means money saved, not money spent, ie he’s saving up to £400 per month.

solid state batteries might be a game changer, but ten minute charge times will require decent chargers everywhere. it’ll be ten years before the cars are affordable.

Solid state batteries will make EVs more expensive and expense is one of the top two barriers you’ve described for EV uptake. The reality is the vast majority of drivers do not need to recharge in 10 minutes because the vast majority of their journeys are less than the range of their EV, and it doesn’t matter whether it takes minutes or hours when it’s recharged whilst you’re doing something else.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Haha! The point is people like you buying EVs are spending £50k.

don’t get me wrong if I had the money.......

The people buying £50k EVs are the people buying £50k ICE cars.

For those who wish to purchase less expensive new cars, or less expensive already-depreciated used cars, then there are a choice of EVs just like there is a choice or ICEs.

 

[GeeJayW]

EVs will work for some, perhaps many, but not all. They are one mobility solution, not the mobility solution.

With charging time; irrespective of battery technology, there are limits on how much energy transfer can take place via an electrical supply in a given time.

Just off the top of my head; Petrol and diesel have energy density of about 40MJ/kg. A 50-litre tank therefore has about 40kg of fuel, so 1,600MJ (1.6GJ) of energy added to the tank in two or three minutes. Assuming that only half of that is useful for driving the car along. In a similar sized battery vehicle, delivering the same duty as the conventional car, the battery would need to be big enough to hold 800MJ from empty to full.

Batteries have significantly lower energy density. Last time I looked it was only about 10% that of petrol or diesel, but let’s assume it’s now 20%. So to have an equivalent energy store to a fuel tank, the battery needs to be 200kg and whatever volume that turns out to be. In any case that is probably a big old lump. So there’s pressure to reduce that to something more reasonable, to say 100kg, and only hold 400MJ of energy. So instead of say 300miles, now only good for 150miles (apologies for mixing units).

Getting 400MJ into a battery takes a while at reasonable voltage and current ratings.

 

[Dickster]

I hardly ever drive and my wife does 6 miles a day for her commute. We visit friends and relatives outside of London approx 6 times a year. The car is used for the odd shop but we get our food delivered by Ocado.

I live in a cul-de-sac where the cars are parked opposite the houses rather than on individual driveways so charging is going to be a problem.

Is it worth me forking out for an EV and is it going to be a load of aggro?

It depends who you ask

 

[Dickster]

The people buying £50k EVs are the people buying £50k ICE cars.

For those who wish to purchase less expensive new cars, or less expensive already-depreciated used cars, then there are a choice of EVs just like there is a choice or ICEs.

On that basis what would you suggest to replace my 2008 BMW X5 3.0SD?

 

[190]

It's a shame the debate about EV's has become so polarised. As has been said several times it's entirely the governments fault for appearing to dictate the solution rather than the target for reducing emissions and allowing the automotive industry to innovate. Who knows by the time we get to 2030 EV's may already look like the wrong solution.

The great benefit of an EV to me would be that it doesn't suffer when used for short trips. There are many times I'm reluctant to use an ICE vehicle for a short 3 mile trip because we know short tripping does an ICE no good at all and MPG is very poor. An EV on the other hand has no such limitations that I'm aware of.

An EV is the perfect commuter but the worst choice for a long trip. The fact that an EV can be used for long trips at some inconvenience to the user is by the way and I can't see them ever being the perfect choice for long trips. If EV owners would just accept that they are not perfect for long trips there would be much less argument. One of my regular journeys involves driving to York using the M62 over the hill from Manchester. Has anyone done that trip in an EV as I'd be interested to hear what it does to the battery range. The professional road tests I've read suggest that any claimed battery range would be halved or worse when climbing a hill like that and doesn't recover on the down hill sections.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Fill up at any 3 pin plug...

Or rely on a dwindling number of petrol and diesel stations...

 

[Fununcle]

On that basis what would you suggest to replace my 2008 BMW X5 3.0SD?

Skip?