F1 2024

[Nat]

Good race and it's nice that Carlo is looking after Lewis's car

Also nice to see Lewis boss George, again. Was anyone watching in board footage with both LH & GR for radio calls? It'd be interesting to know what was said with Lewis been on slightly older tyres, despite been a bit faster.

Max done well not to swear.

 

[GeeJayW]

Good race and it's nice that Carlo is looking after Lewis's car

Also nice to see Lewis boss George, again. Was anyone watching in board footage with both LH & GR for radio calls? It'd be interesting to know what was said with Lewis been on slightly older tyres, despite been a bit faster.

Max done well not to swear.

Max ‘done well’ to avoid a drive-through or a black flag…

 

[baxlin]

Max ‘done well’ to avoid a drive-through or a black flag…

What are the rules about leaving the car alone during a 10sec penalty? Is it don’t touch the car, or don’t work on the car? The reason I ask, is, was using the blower to keep the engine cool “working on the car”? FWIW, I think it was, as while they didn’t necessarily touch the car, it was an action external to and affecting the car, carried out by one of the pit crew.

 

[ChrisPDuck]

What are the rules about leaving the car alone during a 10sec penalty? Is it don’t touch the car, or don’t work on the car? The reason I ask, is, was using the blower to keep the engine cool “working on the car”? FWIW, I think it was, as while they didn’t necessarily touch the car, it was an action external to the car, carried out by one of the pit crew.

FIA issue clarification over pit stop penalty rules after Alonso drama in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®

F1’s governing body, the FIA, has issued a clarification over the regulations around serving a penalty at a pit stop after Fernando Alonso’s podium was taken away and then reinstated in Saudi Arabia.

www.formula1.com

Seems like cooling fans are specifically allowed: "The use of cooling fans during a penalty is permitted providing any such fan does not physically touch the car."

 

[ChrisPDuck]

And still he is told by his team that the penalties were due to ‘lots and lots of moaning’ rather than anything Max did…

The interviews with 'Whinger Spice' annoy me almost as much as Max's attitude to running people off the road - Horner ALWAYS seems to condone and encourage this behaviour.

EDIT: I realise it was his race engineer who said 'lots and lots of moaning', but I feel that it's a team attitude that comes from the top.

 

[baxlin]

FIA issue clarification over pit stop penalty rules after Alonso drama in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®

F1’s governing body, the FIA, has issued a clarification over the regulations around serving a penalty at a pit stop after Fernando Alonso’s podium was taken away and then reinstated in Saudi Arabia.

www.formula1.com

Seems like cooling fans are specifically allowed: "The use of cooling fans during a penalty is permitted providing any such fan does not physically touch the car."

Thank you - it was niggling me!

 

[GeeJayW]

The interviews with 'Whinger Spice' annoy me almost as much as Max's attitude to running people off the road - Horner ALWAYS seems to condone and encourage this behaviour.

EDIT: I realise it was his race engineer who said 'lots and lots of moaning', but I feel that it's a team attitude that comes from the top.

Max has never been properly held to account for his driving standards, by the authorities or his team. Instead he has continually been allowed to drive his fellow racing drivers off the circuit, whenever he has the slower car and unable to defend or attack fairly.

I’m not expecting his attitude to ‘racing’ to change anytime soon. I also think it’s unlikely that the authorities or his team will properly rein him in either.

 

[Mactech]

FIA issue clarification over pit stop penalty rules after Alonso drama in Saudi Arabia | Formula 1®

F1’s governing body, the FIA, has issued a clarification over the regulations around serving a penalty at a pit stop after Fernando Alonso’s podium was taken away and then reinstated in Saudi Arabia.

www.formula1.com

Seems like cooling fans are specifically allowed: "The use of cooling fans during a penalty is permitted providing any such fan does not physically touch the car."

Yes, it has been fairly well understood that operations on the car whilst in pitstop penalty mode may be undertaken as long as the car is not physically touched. That is used to take tyre temps with infrared pyrometers, download data wirelessly and use blowers to cool specific items.

 

[Steveml63]

I have always called him Crashtappen since his debut in F1.
I have also thought of him as an arrogant, aggressive cheat - I just hope his actions do not cause him or the targets of his aggressive driving physical harm.
He really needs to be retrained on the etiquette & rules of fair racing

 

[Mactech]

Dangerous Max...

Mexico City GP: Norris calls Verstappen 'dangerous' as Sainz wins

Lando Norris cuts Max Verstappen’s lead to 47 points and labels his rival “dangerous” as the championship battle reaches boiling point at the Mexico City Grand Prix.

www.bbc.co.uk

That is really strong language for Lando to use about his 'mate' Max. It seems to take a great deal of prodding to annoy Lando, but Max has reached that point.

 

[GeeJayW]

Dangerous Max...

Mexico City GP: Norris calls Verstappen 'dangerous' as Sainz wins

Lando Norris cuts Max Verstappen’s lead to 47 points and labels his rival “dangerous” as the championship battle reaches boiling point at the Mexico City Grand Prix.

www.bbc.co.uk

That is really strong language for Lando to use about his 'mate' Max. It seems to take a great deal of prodding to annoy Lando, but Max has reached that point.

Even after a cooldown period, Lando was clear that he thought that Max had gone beyond the limits of acceptable racing…

 

[st13phil]

Dangerous Max...

Mexico City GP: Norris calls Verstappen 'dangerous' as Sainz wins

Lando Norris cuts Max Verstappen’s lead to 47 points and labels his rival “dangerous” as the championship battle reaches boiling point at the Mexico City Grand Prix.

www.bbc.co.uk

That is really strong language for Lando to use about his 'mate' Max. It seems to take a great deal of prodding to annoy Lando, but Max has reached that point.

The most telling part of all this is that the majority of drivers on the F1 grid believe that Max should have been penalised for forcing Lando off the track in Austin.

IMO, it's absolutely absurd that a driver being overtaken around the outside can game the system by barrelling into the corner with no chance of exiting on the track, so they can force the other driver off the track and claim that the corner was theirs because their front wheels were ahead at the apex. At the GPDA meeting with the FIA, when the FIA stressed the importance of consistency in decision making over driver infractions it was pointed out to them by the drivers that there was no point in being consistently wrong. Ooof.

So here we are again, with rules (or in this case "guidance") being changed due to the actions of one dirty driver who routinely takes the pi$$.

 

[Mactech]

The most telling part of all this is that the majority of drivers on the F1 grid believe that Max should have been penalised for forcing Lando off the track in Austin.

IMO, it's absolutely absurd that a driver being overtaken around the outside can game the system by barrelling into the corner with no chance of exiting on the track, so they can force the other driver off the track and claim that the corner was theirs because their front wheels were ahead at the apex. At the GPDA meeting with the FIA, when the FIA stressed the importance of consistency in decision making over driver infractions it was pointed out to them by the drivers that there was no point in being consistently wrong. Ooof.

So here we are again, with rules (or in this case "guidance") being changed due to the actions of one dirty driver who routinely takes the pi$$.

Just as we have needed track limits closely defined, so we are now into trying to define that even finer line between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour on the track.
Most champions have a 'killer instinct' and can go beyond what is regarded as sporting to become multi champions. See Schumacher for details, but he is certainly not alone.
It's easier to count those great champions who have not pushed the perceived boundaries of 'fairness' than those who have not.
Any rule book (mistakenly or not) assumes a level of ethics and behaviour which we have come to believe is fair.
Foul language, forcing others off the track and endangering the lives of others does not fall into that category, however you warp your definition of the 'guidance'
Lewis has known for some time that Max plays by different rules, Lando is now discovering the same.
Contrast Max's behaviour to that of Lewis in the same race. Lewis patiently unpicked the puzzle of how to pass his teammate cleanly and did just that.
Overtaking should be both technical and cerebral, but all within however we define 'fairness'

 

[GeeJayW]

Just as we have needed track limits closely defined, so we are now into trying to define that even finer line between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour on the track.
Most champions have a 'killer instinct' and can go beyond what is regarded as sporting to become multi champions. See Schumacher for details, but he is certainly not alone.
It's easier to count those great champions who have not pushed the perceived boundaries of 'fairness' than those who have not.
Any rule book (mistakenly or not) assumes a level of ethics and behaviour which we have come to believe is fair.
Foul language, forcing others of the track and endangering the lives of others does not fall into that category, however you warp your definition of the 'guidance'
Lewis has known for some time that Max plays by different rules, Lando is now discovering the same.
Contrast Max's behaviour to that of Lewis in the same race. Lewis patiently unpicked the puzzle of how to pass his teammate cleanly and did just that.
Overtaking should be both technical and cerebral, but all within however we define 'fairness'

When Max first arrived in F1, having not had much prior experience a single-seater career (karting and one season in F3 IIRC), in addition to demonstrating amazing car control, he showed that he was prepared to put others at risk by for example, moving/blocking in the braking zone when cars are already right on the physical limit of what is possible.

Regulations, guidelines and so on have since been redefined, drafted, etc. to cover off the various unsporting interpretations that Max has come up with.

Nevertheless, what we are seeing now has always been there for all to see, but nothing has been done to ‘educate’ him (or if it has, it’s been completely ineffective) in how to compete fairly in an F1 car. This disregard for what is fair racing, nearly cost him his own life at Silverstone in ‘21 and without the halo would have cost Lewis his at Monza.

TBH, for me the sooner Max is gone from F1, the better.

 

[st13phil]

Any rule book (mistakenly or not) assumes a level of ethics and behaviour which we have come to believe is fair.

Couldn't agree more.

Agree about the 'killer instinct' too, but the art - when it comes to judgements about ethics and behaviour - is to keep it under enough control that you avoid grossly overstepping the mark. Schumacher was a fantastically talented driver, but to me his achievements will always be diminished by his willingness to be completely unethical in his pursuit of a win.

Max is undoubtedly extremely talented too, but he plays fast and loose with other drivers' safety and that is - in my view - inexcusable and unacceptable.

 

[Mactech]

Couldn't agree more.

Agree about the 'killer instinct' too, but the art - when it comes to judgements about ethics and behaviour - is to keep it under enough control that you avoid grossly overstepping the mark. Schumacher was a fantastically talented driver, but to me his achievements will always be diminished by his willingness to be completely unethical in his pursuit of a win.

Max is undoubtedly extremely talented too, but he plays fast and loose with other drivers' safety and that is - in my view - inexcusable and unacceptable.

For me what was telling was what Martin Brundle didn't say. He did say that Max was better than that, but I know what he would have said if the "sky voice' filter was not engaged. Martin has a very fast acting filter that keeps him in a job and out of trouble when broadcasting to millions. I know the line he left out!
Martin has seen this driver type before. Very closely when he had Senna's F3 car sitting on his head at Oulton Park in 1983.....

 

[st13phil]

For me what was telling was what Martin Brundle didn't say.

It's also telling what one Christian Horner did & didn't say.

That the management (I include their 'motorsport advisor' in that group) of RBR not just accept, but continually attempt to justify, Max's dangerous behaviour speaks volumes. When they put him in an F1 car they had a responsibility to develop his talent and to rein in his bad behaviour. That they chose to do the former and ignore their responsibilities in respect of the latter reflects very badly on their own ethics.

 

[GeeJayW]

It's also telling what one Christian Horner did & didn't say.

That the management (I include their 'motorsport advisor' in that group) of RBR not just accept, but continually attempt to justify, Max's dangerous behaviour speaks volumes. When they put him in an F1 car they had a responsibility to develop his talent and to rein in his bad behaviour. That they chose to do the former and ignore their responsibilities in respect of the latter reflects very badly on their own ethics.

Couldn’t agree more.

I also consider that the FiA/Liberty compounded the problem in their desperation to break the Mercedes/Hamilton period of domination, especially in ‘21 where an 8th title for Hamilton would have been so ‘boring’ for the ‘fans’. Max was seen as the heir apparent and after turning a number blind-eyes to various incidents through the season, they used Michael Massi to carry out the coup de grace in Abu Dhabi.

Having setup their new ‘messiah’, they can hardly be seen to reverse their position on his known driving standards and knock him back. They (FiA) literally bend over backwards to accommodate driving standards from Max for which the likes of Tsunoda, Colapinto et al would be utterly hammered.

 

[Mactech]

Couldn’t agree more.

I also consider that the FiA/Liberty compounded the problem in their desperation to break the Mercedes/Hamilton period of domination, especially in ‘21 where an 8th title for Hamilton would have been so ‘boring’ for the ‘fans’. Max was seen as the heir apparent and after turning a number blind-eyes to various incidents through the season, they used Michael Massi to carry out the coup de grace in Abu Dhabi.

I think you may be crediting Liberty with far more foresight and ability to actively influence the racing results than they have.
Happenstance and incompetence are much more likely to have handed Max his '21 title....that and the untimely death of Charlie Whiting.

 

[st13phil]

Happenstance and incompetence are much more likely to have handed Max his '21 title.

Yup. Never ascribe to malice what can be reasonably explained by incompetence