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Fixed Penalty Point Query

It isnt true that everytime someone goes through a red light they are putting lives at risk. I live in a small town where there is next to no traffic after midnight. There is a set of lights that are known to ignore people doing a right turn so you could be sitiing there for 5 minutes with no single car going past.

I agree with that - in my local city the lights on the roundabouts around the ring-road have ridiculously short cycles and it's become standard practice to only stop when traffic coming from another direction blocks you.

There's also often no reason why you can't turn left on red when it's safe to do so (same as turn right on red is allowed in the USA unless specifically prohibited).

Jumping a red light at speed on a fast road is asking for trouble though.
 
You are absolutely correct to execute any other summons, warrant or writ the name has to be perfectly correct or it does not stand and is not enforceable. Unfortunately the motorist is the soft target and the law was changed some years ago to close what was considered as a loophole.

To me its more a question of education if the cop can't get the details right then he shouldn't be in the job, how difficult is it to spell the name correctly for Gods sake?

But no in this country what do we do we change the law to make up for the incompetence of certain Police Officers, only in the UK !!!!!!!!!!

That's a harsh assessment, flanaia1. Do you really want to see police numbers depleted just because they make an error when completing paperwork? If an officer was consistently being sloppy or careless then yes, there would need to be some sanction against them, but surely common sense dictates that such errors should just be corrected when discovered. I fail to understand how people seem to think that such an error can absolve them of any responsibility for the offence they've committed, so I'm all for closing such loopholes.

As for the point about writs and warrants, that's slightly different as they are not a record of something that has already happened. However, if an error is made in their completion, it just means they have to be corrected and reissued - which is also what would happen with the FPN.
 
That's a harsh assessment, flanaia1. Do you really want to see police numbers depleted just because they make an error when completing paperwork? If an officer was consistently being sloppy or careless then yes, there would need to be some sanction against them, but surely common sense dictates that such errors should just be corrected when discovered. I fail to understand how people seem to think that such an error can absolve them of any responsibility for the offence they've committed, so I'm all for closing such loopholes.

As for the point about writs and warrants, that's slightly different as they are not a record of something that has already happened. However, if an error is made in their completion, it just means they have to be corrected and reissued - which is also what would happen with the FPN.

If the officer cannot get simple information (name, place, date etc.) right why should his / her judgement be trusted when deciding the light was red, or maybe amber?

Got pulled over in a 'routine stop' a while ago. Completely clear. The condescending / arrogant attitude of the officer had to be heard to be believed.

The police need to recognise they have a PR problem, especially with the 'middle classes' who until recently, they could look to for support.

Contrast this with a motorcycle cop who stopped me when I was doing over 90 on motorway. In a calm, unthreatening way he pointed out my error and let me on my way. I respected him and would have even if he'd give me a ticket as I was pushing it a bit for the traffic conditions.
 
If the officer cannot get simple information (name, place, date etc.) right why should his / her judgement be trusted when deciding the light was red, or maybe amber?

Well, there's a big difference between making a clerical error on a form and not being able to trust what you've seen with your own eyes. But we're talking about cases where the offender is not disputing that they committed the offence.

I'm pleased to say that your experience with the motorcycle officer reflects all my encounters with traffic officers - they have conducted themselves professionally and have taken appropriate (and in some cases, lenient) action. I don't think there's anything special about me, other than the fact that I am always polite in such situations, so I'm prepared to believe that the condescending/arrogant policemen are few and far between.
 
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This I understand



^ But this :dk:. What the hell you on about? .... Automania blah blah blah.

Some of us have functioning brains you know!

As did the poster who replied, if you dont understand a word, ask.

Running a red light in a village is not ok after hours just because YOU think it's ok

Just cause you can't see anything doesn't mean you go, I witnessed first hand a young lad who shouldn't have been on the streets at 1am get knocked over cause someone decided red lights weren't for them after hours.

His mother worked in my local at the time, and I watched her over the next three weeks wonder of he'd wake up, then watched her over the next six months look more and more tired as they had to help him through speech therapy and through physio to give him back usage of his legs.

The driver, lost his license... A paltry sentence for the crime.

If you have a redundant se of traffic lights that are active at night, contact your local council and ask them to investigate. They can then start proceedings to have them switched off at certain times. But please don't just run them.

Mistakes are mistakes, and I've been pulled cause I've went through a red (couldnt stop in time officer..) and I got done and I'll be honest I didn't really care, I often used to drive like a tool. Then sadly I witnessed what happens when you speed and disregard lights.

I wouldn't preach normally, but your answer to that post was ignorant and dismissive.
 
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Mocas, I haven't any idea what you look like, but I have visions of a Stephen Fry/ Russel Brand sort of dandy pontificating at the roadside....:D
 
Mocas, I haven't any idea what you look like, but I have visions of a Stephen Fry/ Russel Brand sort of dandy pontificating at the roadside....:D

You're not missing much, but that would be quite some love-child!

Roadside pontification - now there's a new career direction for me to explore one day... :)
 
I'm pleased to say that your experience with the motorcycle officer reflects all my encounters with traffic officers - they have conducted themselves professionally and have taken appropriate (and in some cases, lenient) action. I don't think there's anything special about me, other than the fact that I am always polite in such situations, so I'm prepared to believe that the condescending/arrogant policemen are few and far between.

Went on a motorcycle course given by an ex m/c cop who said he'd left because he wasn't encouraged to deal with stupid / dangerous drivers but was encouraged to write tickets for people driving sensibly at 90mph on motorways.
 
Went on a motorcycle course given by an ex m/c cop who said he'd left because he wasn't encouraged to deal with stupid / dangerous drivers but was encouraged to write tickets for people driving sensibly at 90mph on motorways.

Let's not turn this into another debate about what the motorway speed limit should be. I know that - depending on road/traffic conditions - we can all drive safely at 90mph, sometimes more, but we also know that we risk prosecution for doing so, and are usually looking at a ban if we get caught going at 100mph or more.

I don't have a problem with traffic officers issuing tickets to speeders per se, provided they are acting fairly and professionally. That's not to say that they should turn a blind eye to more serious motoring offences, but I don't believe for one minute that they do.
 
Let's not turn this into another debate about what the motorway speed limit should be. I know that - depending on road/traffic conditions - we can all drive safely at 90mph, sometimes more, but we also know that we risk prosecution for doing so, and are usually looking at a ban if we get caught going at 100mph or more.

I don't have a problem with traffic officers issuing tickets to speeders per se, provided they are acting fairly and professionally. That's not to say that they should turn a blind eye to more serious motoring offences, but I don't believe for one minute that they do.

I wasn't trying to open a debate about m/way limits but rather to point out that, in the opinion of at least one m/c cop, the focus was on easily ticketable offences rather than concentrating on other forms of bad / dangerous / reckless driving including, e.g. tailgating, driving without lights in fog, pooor lane discipline and so on.

A view I rather agree with.
 
As did the poster who replied, if you dont understand a word, ask.

Running a red light in a village is not ok after hours just because YOU think it's ok

Just cause you can't see anything doesn't mean you go, I witnessed first hand a young lad who shouldn't have been on the streets at 1am get knocked over cause someone decided red lights weren't for them after hours.

His mother worked in my local at the time, and I watched her over the next three weeks wonder of he'd wake up, then watched her over the next six months look more and more tired as they had to help him through speech therapy and through physio to give him back usage of his legs.

The driver, lost his license... A paltry sentence for the crime.

If you have a redundant se of traffic lights that are active at night, contact your local council and ask them to investigate. They can then start proceedings to have them switched off at certain times. But please don't just run them.

Mistakes are mistakes, and I've been pulled cause I've went through a red (couldnt stop in time officer..) and I got done and I'll be honest I didn't really care, I often used to drive like a tool. Then sadly I witnessed what happens when you speed and disregard lights.

I wouldn't preach normally, but your answer to that post was ignorant and dismissive.

I agree with everything you have said however If I am returning to my 'village' at 0100 and the said set of traffic lights is out, Do I wait at the set of traffic lights till the next day when the council sends out someone to come and have a look or do I proceed when it is safe to do so?

Dont get me wrong. I am not justifying jumping a red light but I am just arguing against the poster that assumes everytime a redlight is jumped lives are at risk.
 
That's a harsh assessment, flanaia1. Do you really want to see police numbers depleted just because they make an error when completing paperwork? If an officer was consistently being sloppy or careless then yes, there would need to be some sanction against them, but surely common sense dictates that such errors should just be corrected when discovered. I fail to understand how people seem to think that such an error can absolve them of any responsibility for the offence they've committed, so I'm all for closing such loopholes.

As for the point about writs and warrants, that's slightly different as they are not a record of something that has already happened. However, if an error is made in their completion, it just means they have to be corrected and reissued - which is also what would happen with the FPN.

Yes I do want to see traffic cop numbers depleted there are far too many tossers in there that think they are above the law, lets weed them out and get shut but replace them with people who know how to do the job. As you are probably aware 2 of my closest friends are traffic cops and they take the time to check details and record accordingly and they would be the first to agree with me there are some traffic cops just not suited to the job they don't have the IQ, ability or education to be dealing with the public, full stop.

The law is the law and should be applied fairly and consistently if it's not then I have no problem exploiting any loophole that exists and have done several times, If I have been treated fair then I'll hold my hand up and cough. If I don't get treated with the respect a member of the public has a right to then I will and have complained all the way up to the Chief Constable which so far has seen 2 officers reprimanded. In most stops the police nearly always make a procedural error you just have to spot it and use it to your advantage.

SWMBO got one officer demoted because of the way he handled a stop with her and then a very young daughter in the car on a very busy motorway and he was a senior officer, the Police Complaints Commission don't mess :thumb:

Best piece of advice get a dictaphone voice recorder and the minute you are stopped turn it on in front of the cop and tell him you are recording the conversation in case you need it as evidence, watch his reaction you will most likely get off with a warning as they wont risk it being used against them. To the officers that can do their job it won't make a blind bit of difference but might be a good aide memoir should you need it.

The law should apply fairly and consistently to all, no mistakes or excuses tolerated.
 
...............
Best piece of advice get a dictaphone voice recorder and the minute you are stopped turn it on in front of the cop and tell him you are recording the conversation in case you need it as evidence, watch his reaction you will most likely get off with a warning as they wont risk it being used against them. To the officers that can do their job it won't make a blind bit of difference but might be a good aide memoir should you need it.

The law should apply fairly and consistently to all, no mistakes or excuses tolerated.

Quite a few mobile phones have the ability to make a recording, I know mine has. I've been thinking about using it as you suggest, or maybe without letting them know they're being recorded. Anything against that?
 
it's inadmissable as evidence, this is why you encounter "your call may be recorded" it's the disclaimer to tell you that you ARE being recorded.
 
it's inadmissable as evidence, this is why you encounter "your call may be recorded" it's the disclaimer to tell you that you ARE being recorded.

That's why I said tell the cop he is being recorded nothing against it in a public place. If you end up in their car most forces now have permanent recording, so if you are considering going to court after a stop always ask for a copy of the recording. They must also tell you that you are being recorded whilst sat in their car if they are doing so. One that they quite often forget ;)
 
Yes I do want to see traffic cop numbers depleted there are far too many tossers in there that think they are above the law, lets weed them out and get shut but replace them with people who know how to do the job. As you are probably aware 2 of my closest friends are traffic cops and they take the time to check details and record accordingly and they would be the first to agree with me there are some traffic cops just not suited to the job they don't have the IQ, ability or education to be dealing with the public, full stop.

The law is the law and should be applied fairly and consistently if it's not then I have no problem exploiting any loophole that exists and have done several times, If I have been treated fair then I'll hold my hand up and cough. If I don't get treated with the respect a member of the public has a right to then I will and have complained all the way up to the Chief Constable which so far has seen 2 officers reprimanded. In most stops the police nearly always make a procedural error you just have to spot it and use it to your advantage.

SWMBO got one officer demoted because of the way he handled a stop with her and then a very young daughter in the car on a very busy motorway and he was a senior officer, the Police Complaints Commission don't mess :thumb:

Best piece of advice get a dictaphone voice recorder and the minute you are stopped turn it on in front of the cop and tell him you are recording the conversation in case you need it as evidence, watch his reaction you will most likely get off with a warning as they wont risk it being used against them. To the officers that can do their job it won't make a blind bit of difference but might be a good aide memoir should you need it.

The law should apply fairly and consistently to all, no mistakes or excuses tolerated.

So you demand to be treated with respect by the police, but you're starting from the premise that a lot of them are "tossers" and you tell them that you'll be recording everything that happens because you don't trust them to do their job properly? Thank God I don't live in your world, flanaia1.
 
So you demand to be treated with respect by the police, but you're starting from the premise that a lot of them are "tossers" and you tell them that you'll be recording everything that happens because you don't trust them to do their job properly? Thank God I don't live in your world, flanaia1.

Absolutely spot on well nearly, there's a minority that are tossers. But you missed the most important point of my post if they handle the stop correctly and without attitude then I'll hold my hand up.If they are ****y from the off then as far as I'm considered its game on.

Life in my world is fine thanks and a Merry Christamas and a Very Happy new year to you too.:thumb:
 
Absolutely spot on well nearly, there's a minority that are tossers. But you missed the most important point of my post if they handle the stop correctly and without attitude then I'll hold my hand up.If they are ****y from the off then as far as I'm considered its game on.

Life in my world is fine thanks and a Merry Christamas and a Very Happy new year to you too.:thumb:


Bang on, if you not happy with the way you are being dealt with then note their details 'if its not on your ticket', and complain.

No harm in recording us, fill your boots! I record you if my video is on and even if its not, I'll record what you say in writing. I'll caution you first and ask you certain questions in relation to the offence 'you dont have to reply', but you DO have to give me your details.

To go for the sound bite:

You may well be in the wrong, but we must still treat you right:thumb:
 

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