Formula 1 2020 (Will Contain Race Day Spoilers)

[glojo]

Great news for McLaren and hopefully they will be ahead of Racing Point again next year with the same engine.

I did smile when the commentators were criticising the race for a lack of overtaking.... I think Monaco is more like formula 1 cars acting like mobile billboards!!!

Who do we think will be at Red Bull next year?

 

[GeeJayW]

Yeah, just saying that. All that money spent and not a single point to show for it. Must be demoralising for the whole team.

Does make me wonder just what it is they need in order to get more pace out of the car. Something still wrong with the aero package I guess?

 

[GeeJayW]

Great news for McLaren and hopefully they will be ahead of Racing Point again next year with the same engine.

I did smile when the commentators were criticising the race for a lack of overtaking.... I think Monaco is more like formula 1 cars acting like mobile billboards!!!

Who do we think will be at Red Bull next year?

Given the Malaysia connection, probably Albon but should be Perez if they really want to put pressure on MB.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

.......... should be Perez if they really want to put pressure on MB.

Indeed. Surprising to see McLaren closer to Red Bull (on points) than Red Bull is to Mercedes. I really doubt that would have been the case if Red Bull had a more consistent/stronger 2nd driver.

 

[glojo]

Indeed. Surprising to see McLaren closer to Red Bull (on points) than Red Bull is to Mercedes. I really doubt that would have been the case if Red Bull had a more consistent/stronger 2nd driver.

I'm a devil for bringing up motogp on this F1 thread but regarding Albon.... In Motogp there was a rider called Casey Stoner and he had the ability to wring the neck out of his motorbike making it do things that should have not been possible. For several seasons his team-mates could not get anywhere near him and is it possible that Max is of a similar ilk? This is the second driver that has failed to match his performances and would a third one make any difference? I have no idea but we have seen what happened to Gasly when he left Red Bull. I have no idea of the answer

 

[AMGeed]

I'm a devil for bringing up motogp on this F1 thread but regarding Albon.... In Motogp there was a rider called Casey Stoner and he had the ability to wring the neck out of his motorbike making it do things that should have not been possible.

No need to go back as far as Casey Stoner.
What about Marc Marquez at Honda. Just untouchable by teammates and rivals alike.

 

[GeeJayW]

I'm a devil for bringing up motogp on this F1 thread but regarding Albon.... In Motogp there was a rider called Casey Stoner and he had the ability to wring the neck out of his motorbike making it do things that should have not been possible. For several seasons his team-mates could not get anywhere near him and is it possible that Max is of a similar ilk? This is the second driver that has failed to match his performances and would a third one make any difference? I have no idea but we have seen what happened to Gasly when he left Red Bull. I have no idea of the answer

Maybe. The Red Bull carries a lot of rake, so is perhaps very sensitive. Max may well find it more to his liking than Alex. Max may be (most probably is) more assertive, getting the car tuned to his liking. I think Sergio is currently a stronger driving asset for the team than Alex. On the other hand Alex is quite young, bright enough and clearly an asset for the future. They could park him in the Alpha Touri for a year...?

 

[glojo]

Excellent and a very valid point

I just dislike the crocodile tears being shed by formula one over the demise of the Racing Point driver. That team replaced him for whatever reason and why should any other team sack one of their drivers for a decision made by Racing Point?

We have all witnessed how it is so difficult to judge any driver without the full and complete knowledge of the situation within a team?

 

[bob6600]

I know Bottas has had some bad luck this year but he's had some bad drives too. Max had 5 DNFs and would have easily secured 2nd place.

Still no word on Lewis' contract. I think it's a done deal but there is a small part of me wondering if he will do a Rosberg?

With Red Bull/AT, do they really need to put Tsunoda in the car next year? Albon could easily go back into the junior team and put Perez in the Red Bull. They are awaiting how well he does in the test but is that enough to evaluate how well he will do across a season in the top flight under pressure?

 

[glojo]

I know Bottas has had some bad luck this year but he's had some bad drives too. Max had 5 DNFs and would have easily secured 2nd place.

Still no word on Lewis' contract. I think it's a done deal but there is a small part of me wondering if he will do a Rosberg?

With Red Bull/AT, do they really need to put Tsunoda in the car next year? Albon could easily go back into the junior team and put Perez in the Red Bull. They are awaiting how well he does in the test but is that enough to evaluate how well he will do across a season in the top flight under pressure?

Are we not being way too hard on Bottas? Yup he has more than his share of the bad luck but what about team orders and the wrecking of his strategy? We all seem to forget these events and no, I am not suggesting he is the better driver and yes, Mercedes are correct to employ team orders and also protect the lead of their number one driver.

 

[GeeJayW]

Excellent and a very valid point

I just dislike the crocodile tears being shed by formula one over the demise of the Racing Point driver. That team replaced him for whatever reason and why should any other team sack one of their drivers for a decision made by Racing Point?

We have all witnessed how it is so difficult to judge any driver without the full and complete knowledge of the situation within a team?

Not having talented drivers like Hulkenberg and Perez in the field, when at the same time having ‘placeholder’ drivers that are only there because they are very well funded is poor IMHO. Not crocodile tears for an individual (though I have met and like Perez), just sad to lose talent from the sport. Nothing new, never good though.

 

[GeeJayW]

Are we not being way too hard on Bottas? Yup he has more than his share of the bad luck but what about team orders and the wrecking of his strategy? We all seem to forget these events and no, I am not suggesting he is the better driver and yes, Mercedes are correct to employ team orders and also protect the lead of their number one driver.

Bottas’ season hasn’t been messed up by team orders or wrecked strategies unless you have clear examples.

 

[bob6600]

Are we not being way too hard on Bottas? Yup he has more than his share of the bad luck but what about team orders and the wrecking of his strategy? We all seem to forget these events and no, I am not suggesting he is the better driver and yes, Mercedes are correct to employ team orders and also protect the lead of their number one driver.

I like Bottas but in the best car he hasn't performed as well as he could have IMO. Lewis had more poles and led a lot more aces, that gives him priority on strategy. I'm just saying he was lucky to keep 2nd in the WDC, which with such a dominant car, should have been a given.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Bottas’ season hasn’t been messed up by team orders or wrecked strategies unless you have clear examples.

Agreed. IIRC Merc have never done a ‘Ferrari’ or ‘Red Bull’

 

[GeeJayW]

Agreed. IIRC Merc have never done a ‘Ferrari’ or ‘Red Bull’

The only time I can think of was in Socchi a few years ago, where Bottas was asked to yield.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

The only time I can think of was in Socchi a few years ago, where Bottas was asked to yield.

Sorry yes, my bad. I was meaning this season.

 

[glojo]

Bottas’ season hasn’t been messed up by team orders or wrecked strategies unless you have clear examples.

There are quite a few but sadly I did not record them. Was one calling in Hamilton first when he was behind Bottas and Bottas asked why this happened? There are a number of these but unless we rewatch all the races this season and last season, then I guess we just need to trust each other

 

[glojo]

From memory I think this year we had Bottas behind hamilton, Bottas asked to use their 'Push Mode' and was told 'No' by his engineer. I think the engineer said there was an agreement by the two drivers not to use this against each other!! That was the first that Bottas knew about this and was it a team order or a one sided team agreement?

In a different race I think Bottas wanted to use a different tyre strategy to Hamilton and that was again refused.

We can debate this until the moo cows come home but there are either team orders or there are not. If you cannot use the tyres of your choice, that must surely be a team order?

If you want to use the 'Push' mode that you can use against any other car, then that is surely a team order?

There cannot surely be a difference between a 'request' or an order?

These are examples of what we hear but I would be amazed if anyone here is privvy to what goes on behind closed doors.

My mate who knows someone, who knows someone that works at the Mercedes factory overheard.......

That does not count as inside information

Not sure if I am for, or against team orders, my heart says I am against but my little brain puts up a good case for them

 

[Deleted member 113659]

From memory I think this year we had Bottas behind hamilton, Bottas asked to use their 'Push Mode' and was told 'No' by his engineer. I think the engineer said there was an agreement by the two drivers not to use this against each other!! That was the first that Bottas knew about this and was it a team order or a one sided team agreement?

In a different race I think Bottas wanted to use a different tyre strategy to Hamilton and that was again refused.

We can debate this until the moo cows come home but there are either team orders or there are not. If you cannot use the tyres of your choice, that must surely be a team order?

If you want to use the 'Push' mode that you can use against any other car, then that is surely a team order?

There cannot surely be a difference between a 'request' or an order?

These are examples of what we hear but I would be amazed if anyone here is privvy to what goes on behind closed doors.

My mate who knows someone, who knows someone that works at the Mercedes factory overheard.......

That does not count as inside information

Not sure if I am for, or against team orders, my heart says I am against but my little brain puts up a good case for them

Are you Ok John?

 

[glojo]

Are you Ok John?

Hopefully and thank you for the tactful question