Formula 1 2020 (Will Contain Race Day Spoilers)

[GeeJayW]

We are accustomed to seeing pit crews changing tyres in several seconds and they have developed this into a fine art by constant practice which is timed. After this accident is there a case for drivers and their associated cars having to pass an emergency exit test. We are familiar with the somewhat involved ritual of the driver quitting the vehicle at the end of the race but this is done at a leisurely pace. If emergency driver exit was timed to a limit that had to be achieved it might have the effect of concentrating thinking on the present exit operations necessary. This is perhaps wishful thinking due to the current driver restraints but it might cause a reappraisal of the equipment used? Indeed has anyone tested/timed how quickly drivers can exit the current set of vehicles in an emergency [simulated]? One consequence might be disqualification of an injured driver from participating till he can pass such a test. Resulting in the question yes you can drive the car but can you get out of it in a hurry?

I‘m pretty sure there is already a speed/ease of exit criteria that car and driver have to meet, though I don’t know how well it represents the two incidents from yesterday. This was one of the issues with Billy Monger’s return to the sport and Robert Kubica‘s as well..

 

[Stratman]

During Channel 4's highlights programme, either Webber or Coulthard I can't remember which, having viewed the replays several times made the point that on the opening lap when cars are two and three abreast across the track, you don't make big sideways movements.

 

[grober]

What brought this to mind was the test all oil offshore personnel had to pass at one time which involved a simulated escape from a submerged/overturned helicopter. In other words think the unthinkable and address the possibility. By continually testing driver emergency exit unforeseen issues might arise that's all. Interesting that a car constructional detail /modification which arose from a driver injury from flying debris impact has proved vital to driver survival in this instance.

 

[Petrol Pete]

I think that Romain’s accident shows that with following wind and great deal of good fortune, the work of the FIA safety group has paid fantastic dividends.
Who knew that the halo would make diving through the centre of Armco barriers survivable? Certainly it improved your chances of not being struck by flying debris and wheels, but what an amazing unintended consequence
The structural requirements, the procedures and organisation all played a part.
We also saw men running across the circuit with fire extinguisher, the cause of death back in 70’s!
One thing that will not change is the the energy to dissipate will still be proportional to mass x velocity squared......a sobering thought.

Kyalami. Horrible. The fire extinguisher killed the driver as well.

 

[glojo]

Looking at Grojean's hands in my video clip, he is very quickly going to find out who his real friends are... Just remember, if they shake it more than twice, I fear they are playing with it

 

[Petrol Pete]

A few things in my mind. commentators said it was an unusual place to crash, but we have seen drivers come of the track in all sorts of 'odd' places, including on a straight behind a safety car recently.

So what is to be done ? I don't have the answers but a pointy thing (F1 car) at speed will find the tiny gap between Armco that is bolted together to form a wall and drive a wedge right into it under the right circumstance as we saw on Sunday. A sheet of thick rubber 'conveyor belt' material covering the Armco might have helped but that could fold down over the car and driver if hit hard enough. Anyone here remember those 'catch fences' that were sometimes erected in the gravel traps to 'slow' the car ? they could fold over an open top car and were not much fun for motorcycle racers.

On a final note from me, was it just me who thought the first response marshal on the inside of the track had a faulty (or the wrong) fire extinguisher ? It appeared to do little or nothing and had a sort of wide blast , like a 'damp down' effect . When his colleague (track side) pulled the trigger a few seconds later his extinguisher looked like a tornado in comparison.

Either way we all know RG is a very lucky guy.

 

[zipdip]

Well I feared the worst watching the accident, it was a very weird place to have one ,I believe all the drivers have to at the start of the season prove they can get out of the cockpit and replace the steering wheel in 10 seconds,I suspect Grojean did not bother with the steering wheel he was a very lucky driver helped by the design of the pod and that halo,the accident jerked us all up,we have not seen one as bad as that for some years and with the fire.

 

[Dryce]

Interesting that a car constructional detail /modification which arose from a driver injury from flying debris impact has proved vital to driver survival in this instance.

There was a lot of talk about flying debris when it was being developed - but the FIA's aim was always to protect the driver in a collision with another car or static object as well as protecting them from other objects such as debris.

 

[bob6600]

I think there was debris on the track which hit Grosean's front right wheel. Whether it caused him to veer off towards Kvyat I'm not sure.

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Grosean will miss next week's race and will be replaced by reserve driver Pietro Fittipaldi

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[AMGeed]

Daniel Ricciardo not happy with replays of accident.
He does have a point in that wives and girlfriends of the drivers waiting for the restart could be upset, not forgetting Grosjean's wife if she were watching form home, but, that's motor racing.
It was clear in the aftermath that Romain was not seriously hurt, so the TV stations covering the incident had little to fill the time with until the restart.

On reflection, maybe D R will realise that.

Daniel Ricciardo 'disgusted' with F1 for replays of Grosjean crash

Australian racing driver Daniel Ricciardo has slammed Formula One for repeatedly showing replays of a fiery crash while competitors waited to return to the track.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 149005]

RG should have known DK was behind / alongside him...as RG hadn’t been passed...

 

[GeeJayW]

DR has a point though there were no replays until it was clear that Roman was nominally OK. I think there would not have been replays otherwise, there were none until his status was pretty clear.

Nevertheless, the accident itself was about as violent as it gets, so quite uncomfortable and voyeuristic at the same time, with a very strong human interest element. That’s what TV is all about I guess...

 

[Deleted member 65149]

So what is to be done ? I don't have the answers but a pointy thing (F1 car) at speed will find the tiny gap between Armco that is bolted together to form a wall and drive a wedge right into it under the right circumstance as we saw on Sunday. A sheet of thick rubber 'conveyor belt' material covering the Armco might have helped but that could fold down over the car and driver if hit hard enough. Anyone here remember those 'catch fences' that were sometimes erected in the gravel traps to 'slow' the car ? they could fold over an open top car and were not much fun for motorcycle racers.

Didn't the Armco achieve what it was designed to do. Surely it's not meant to be a wall that brings a vehicle to a sudden stop, with attendant consequences. Isn't its purpose to prevent a high speed vehicle travelling beyond the boundary of the track (where potential injury to the driver and others could be even higher) whilst at the same time stopping it from bouncing off and back onto the track into the path of another car? There construction provided a bit of flexibility to reduce the effect of the impact but didn't allow the car right through.

 

[GeeJayW]

Didn't the Armco achieve what it was designed to do. Surely it's not meant to be a wall that brings a vehicle to a sudden stop, with attendant consequences. Isn't its purpose to prevent a high speed vehicle travelling beyond the boundary of the track (where potential injury to the driver and others could be even higher) whilst at the same time stopping it from bouncing off and back onto the track into the path of another car? There construction provided a bit of flexibility to reduce the effect of the impact but didn't allow the car right through.

The front of the car went right through the Armco, so no it didn’t really do a particularly good job here IMHO.

 

[grober]

formulaoneinsights.com

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[grober]

Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir GP after testing positive for coronavirus

World champion Lewis Hamilton will miss this weekend's Sakhir Grand Prix after testing positive for coronavirus.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[GeeJayW]

formulaoneinsights.com

This domain may be for sale!

formulaoneinsights.com

I’ve used fuel tanks from ATL in a past life and they are very tough, well engineering and expensive items. Never had one fail, but then none of the cars fitted with them were involved in collisions.

 

[GeeJayW]

Lewis Hamilton to miss Sakhir GP after testing positive for coronavirus

World champion Lewis Hamilton will miss this weekend's Sakhir Grand Prix after testing positive for coronavirus.

www.bbc.co.uk

Oops!

 

[Deleted member 149005]

well at least someone else will win....

 

[Petrol Pete]

Didn't the Armco achieve what it was designed to do. Surely it's not meant to be a wall that brings a vehicle to a sudden stop, with attendant consequences. Isn't its purpose to prevent a high speed vehicle travelling beyond the boundary of the track (where potential injury to the driver and others could be even higher) whilst at the same time stopping it from bouncing off and back onto the track into the path of another car? There construction provided a bit of flexibility to reduce the effect of the impact but didn't allow the car right through.

Yes and no, 'Armco' where we normal humans drive is supposed to flex to steer the vehicle and prevent it going somewhere it should not be while dissipating some of the energy from the crash and is designed with max 70 (or so) MPH in mind and a myriad of vehicle types and weights and as a result are a compromise. A Lamborghini Aventador might get wedged under a UK barrier somewhere but a Transit van less so. As a result roadside barriers are a compromise.

The Bharain 'outer track' was being used for the first time on Sunday and was practically designed for F1 cars , as are many other of the new tracks around the world when old established tracks have either had to adapt to F1 or lose the races. The Armco and safety put in place for F1 is one of the reasons many of the tracks do not hold Moto GP bike racing. What is safe for F1 is not necessarily safe for bikes...and visa versa.

The general consensus is that it was a very unusual place to crash and a bunch of stacked up tyres with some conveyor belt cover might have done a better job. In this particular incident the driver was at the back of the pack and hit at an angle. In my opinion a solid wall would have given a better result. He suffered 54G or whatever it was because his car stopped dead in the jaws of the split barrier. Had it been a solid wall it would certainly have hit just as hard but the wreckage would have spun harmlessly (for others) into empty space.

The fact that a solid barrier was erected in place of the damaged Armco and the race allowed to continue tells us all we need to know.

Lets wait for the weekend to see exactly what permanent barrier will be in place at this location. I would be surprise to see a similar wall of Armco with wooden uprights driven into the sand.