Formula 1 2020 (Will Contain Race Day Spoilers)

[pmcgsmurf]

When I was watching it live, I feared the worst when they didn't (initially) show any replays. Glad he's ok, seemed a miracle he walked away from it. The Halo definitely saved his life as it split the barrier. Had it not been there, it would have been his helmet. Was never a fan of it but I'm glad it's there now

Same for me. Happy to admit I'm not as smart as I think I am.

 

[Nat]

Am I the only one who thought they'd only changed 3 wheels on Bottas car.

if that was the case, will it incur a penalty?

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Am I the only one who thought they'd only changed 3 wheels on Bottas car.

if that was the case, will it incur a penalty?

Never noticed. What do you mean?

They put him onto the hards at the first stop so that was his tyre change job done.

 

[GeeJayW]

Am I the only one who thought they'd only changed 3 wheels on Bottas car.

if that was the case, will it incur a penalty?

I didn’t notice, but if they did I think you’re right it will/may incur a penalty.

 

[Mactech]

I think that Romain’s accident shows that with following wind and great deal of good fortune, the work of the FIA safety group has paid fantastic dividends.
Who knew that the halo would make diving through the centre of Armco barriers survivable? Certainly it improved your chances of not being struck by flying debris and wheels, but what an amazing unintended consequence
The structural requirements, the procedures and organisation all played a part.
We also saw men running across the circuit with fire extinguisher, the cause of death back in 70’s!
One thing that will not change is the the energy to dissipate will still be proportional to mass x velocity squared......a sobering thought.

 

[AMGeed]

My heart sunk when I saw that accident. The fact Grosjean survived was incredibly lucky due to car design and technology.
Not many years ago that would have been fatal. I hope that is the last time he sits in an F1 car considering possible rib fractures and an end to his contract. He has been in more than his fair share of scrapes.

As for the race, only two cars in it and Red Bull are just not there yet. Another masterclass from LH.
Perez very unfortunate to get a DNF after his excellent drive. It's crazy he still hasn't got a drive next season whilst his team mate and other lesser drivers are sitting pretty.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

....It's crazy he still hasn't got a drive next season whilst his team mate and other lesser drivers are sitting pretty.

Sadly this seems to be the way, money first, driving ability second.

 

[GeeJayW]

Sadly this seems to be the way, money first, driving ability second.

Sergio comes with significant money, but Daddy Stroll is on the board at RP/Aston Martin and Red Bull are based in Malaysia...

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Unfortunately I had to work today so we’ve just watched to race.

Hats off to the Halo. And to think a few years ago fans and the like were complaining it was not aesthetically pleasing . I can’t imagine the instant fear and thoughts he (and his family) would have experienced during those 20 seconds. One wonders if he’ll ever want to race again despite racing drivers fearless competitive nature.

Another Masterclass from LH. Shame for SP and Racing Point. Good day for McLaren and 3rd place in the Constructors Championship.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

Can’t help but think RG was master of his own accident - unless something broke and caused him to right, across Kvyat?

i thought Kvyat was hard done by with 10sei da for the Stroll incident as it looked like he had enough of his car along with his front wheels ahead of Stroll’s rear?

 

[Dryce]

My heart sunk when I saw that accident. The fact Grosjean survived was incredibly lucky due to car design and technology.
Not many years ago that would have been fatal. I hope that is the last time he sits in an F1 car considering possible rib fractures and an end to his contract. He has been in more than his fair share of scrapes.

I remember watching Gerhard Berger's crash at Imola live 30 years ago.

The image of watching flames engulf a car and driver don't go away. It felt like like an age before anybody did anything. The cameras lingered on the scene and didn't cut away. In fact a marshall had a fire extinguisher on within 15s and the fire was out after another 10s.

At the time similar comments to those of today were being made about safety progress.

F1 has not stood still. Today's incident highlights that the risks have been consistently reduced in the last 40 years - that reduction never reaches zero.

The tradeoffs on safety change as risks are evaluated and the effect of various improvements change those risks. When Gerhard Berger crashed at Imola his helmet had an emergency air supply to protect his lungs from smoke, hot air, and burning fumes while he escaped the car or was rescued. In the time since that safety feature was removed on the basis that it could hinder they driver's escape from the car. We tend to take it for granted now that the cars protect the driver sufficiently that they will normally be able to get out of the car unaided and the emphasis is therefore on allowing them to get out more quickly.

 

[Mactech]

Yes, as the structure of racing cars has become stronger, so the access holes for the driver to escape have become smaller. Recent experience suggests that in the majority of incidents the driver will remain intact and reasonably unharmed.
What have not seen recently are incidents violent enough to break the power unit from the survival cell and cause fuel spillage.
As in every air crash, lessons will be learnt.
It was obvious yesterday that in both incidents the cars were not easy to get out of in the positions they ended up in.
I remember having the same argument at the FIA around the turn of the century when sports cars were suffering 'blow over' incidents.
Closed and open cars had very different regulations and the bare statistics showed that the closed cars had suffered no fatalities during blow overs, unfortunately not the case for open cars.
Driver access with the car upside down or tangled with barriers is now coming into sharp focus.

 

[renault12ts]

Grosjean's car dived through the armco (why)...and stopped the front of the car instantly...the rear, with the heavy bits, kept moving...and separated from the safety cell.

He was lucky to find a way out, he could so easily have been trapped.

The enquiry will be centered around why the armco "split".

 

[GeeJayW]

The nose hit between two layers of Armco and wedged it apart. 800+ kg at 220km/h or 61m/s results in a lot of energy to dissipate. The car hit the barrier at a slight tangent which resulted in significant lateral forces as it effectively ‘wrapped itself’ around one of the supporting posts. This wrenched the powertrain assembly off of the tub. Very difficult, even impossible to design truly dry break couplings that can manage this level of violence. In my opinion (FWIW) the fire may well have been started by engine oil in contact with high temperature surfaces but quickly supplemented by fuel from wherever. Ross Brawn (I think), suggested it was probably from the collector. The main fuel tanks are extremely tough, but they’re not indestructible.

Without the halo, Roman’s helmet would have taken over the task of parting the barrier and I don‘t think that would have ended well at all.

The local fire marshals were brave, but initially quite ineffective. Setting off a fire extinguisher several metres from a fire is useless. It looked to me like another was trying to use his extinguisher before taking the pin out. Typically this bends the pin, making it difficult to use or even useless. This is easy to do in the heat of the moment (pun not intended) when a bit a panic can set in.

The FIA medical team showed great courage, were well organised and fortunately did not have to actually get Roman out of the car. Had Roman lost consciousness, it may have turned into a rather different story.

Perhaps some changes to the FIA emergency response vehicle:
- Could be based on a slightly larger car, perhaps an E-class estate. This would allow more space for some modest fire and rescue kit.
- Could be manned/staffed by four-people, 2x medical, 2x fire and rescue. The latter can if need be get a lift back to pits if the car is needed as medical transfer vehicle.
- Open-face helmets are not the best thing for confronting fire as shown yesterday, (thank goodness they didn’t have to go into the flames).

 

[glojo]

Like everyone else, that was not a sight anyone wanted to see, but what stuck in my throat was the pathetic bleating by the commentators stating that this is why formula 1 drivers are paid the big bucks!!!!

Excuse me?? Are we suggesting that risk equals reward? I can think of quite a few motorsports where the risks are far, far far greater than in formula 1 and do racers really race for the financial reward?.

Yes the halo proved its worth and no one wants to see a driver using their head to prevent a collision but motor sport is dangerous, and if drivers were paid a commensurate regarding risk, then lets start paying TT riders a tenth of the wage of these rediculously highly paid racers.

NO.... I do not enjoy watching these types of accidents, nor do I enjoy the modern day drivers leaving the track with no consequence and not even losing a place in that race.

Quite a few racing drivers never make formula 1 purely because they do not have the backing to get into this top tier, I am sure there are drivers in lower forrmula that would grab at the chance to race in a formula 1 carfor a pittance of what these top drivers are paid.

If it were possible, I would put money on Verstappen grabbing the chance at driving the Mercedes for 50% of what Hamilton is paid and I would put money on the suggestion that by replacing Hamilton, Verstappen would also have been a multi formula 1 World champion. I am NOT saying what one of those two would be the better driver, but I am saying if it were possible, then I am guessing that Verstappen would jump at the chance of driving the Merc even for a drop of salary.

Racing is dangerous as is driving a car on a public highway and there are far more fatalities on our roads.

I fear that Grojean has a justified reputation for his 'aggressive' style of driving BUT it would be out of order to point the finger until we are aware of the full facts.

I am NOT going to criticise that official for running across the race track as all he saw was a ball of flame, he was rushing into danger in the hope that he might help and for those that say you need to get right close to the flames to put them out..... Might I suggest you start from a distance and push the fire away from you as opposed to rushing right at it. Thank goodness Grojean was concious, thank goodnerss he was not trapped and thank goodness that fire never got under his visor. I was so, so p[leased it had such a healthy ending but if he has got broken ribs... he will definitely not be laughing for a few weeks

 

[GeeJayW]

Like everyone else, that was not a sight anyone wanted to see, but what stuck in my throat was the pathetic bleating by the commentators stating that this is why formula 1 drivers are paid the big bucks!!!!

Excuse me?? Are we suggesting that risk equals reward? I can think of quite a few motorsports where the risks are far, far far greater than in formula 1 and do racers really race for the financial reward?.

Yes the halo proved its worth and no one wants to see a driver using their head to prevent a collision but motor sport is dangerous, and if drivers were paid a commensurate regarding risk, then lets start paying TT riders a tenth of the wage of these rediculously highly paid racers.

NO.... I do not enjoy watching these types of accidents, nor do I enjoy the modern day drivers leaving the track with no consequence and not even losing a place in that race.

Quite a few racing drivers never make formula 1 purely because they do not have the backing to get into this top tier, I am sure there are drivers in lower forrmula that would grab at the chance to race in a formula 1 carfor a pittance of what these top drivers are paid.

If it were possible, I would put money on Verstappen grabbing the chance at driving the Mercedes for 50% of what Hamilton is paid and I would put money on the suggestion that by replacing Hamilton, Verstappen would also have been a multi formula 1 World champion. I am NOT saying what one of those two would be the better driver, but I am saying if it were possible, then I am guessing that Verstappen would jump at the chance of driving the Merc even for a drop of salary.

Racing is dangerous as is driving a car on a public highway and there are far more fatalities on our roads.

I fear that Grojean has a justified reputation for his 'aggressive' style of driving BUT it would be out of order to point the finger until we are aware of the full facts.

I am NOT going to criticise that official for running across the race track as all he saw was a ball of flame, he was rushing into danger in the hope that he might help and for those that say you need to get right close to the flames to put them out..... Might I suggest you start from a distance and push the fire away from you as opposed to rushing right at it. Thank goodness Grojean was concious, thank goodnerss he was not trapped and thank goodness that fire never got under his visor. I was so, so p[leased it had such a healthy ending but if he has got broken ribs... he will definitely not be laughing for a few weeks

A lot of points...

The driver salaries in Motorsport across the board are based as much on commercial value as anything else. So Moto GP riders earn less than F1 drivers because overall, rightly or wrongly there is less money in Moto GP than there is in F1.

Grosjean pulled to his right in response to the car on his left that was about to rejoin the circuit. I don’t think he saw Kvyatt, but his collision/contact effectively caused his car to veer across the circuit and then strike the barrier.

I’m not blaming or criticising any official, merely stating that fire extinguishers are useless if they are not used properly.

 

[glojo]

A lot of points...

The driver salaries in Motorsport across the board are based as much on commercial value as anything else. So Moto GP riders earn less than F1 drivers because overall, rightly or wrongly there is less money in Moto GP than there is in F1.

Grosjean pulled to his right in response to the car on his left that was about to rejoin the circuit. I don’t think he saw Kvyatt, but his collision/contact effectively caused his car to veer across the circuit and then strike the barrier.

I’m not blaming or criticising any official, merely stating that fire extinguishers are useless if they are not used properly.

Hi Gee,
No criticism of your posts at all and it has also been highlighted that milli-seconds before Grojean applied that starboard rudder... Some debris was seen approaching that nearside front-wheel, hence my comment about NOT passing judgement until all the facts are in.

Totally agree about the link between commercial value and salary...

 

[grober]

We are accustomed to seeing pit crews changing tyres in several seconds and they have developed this into a fine art by constant practice which is timed. After this accident is there a case for drivers and their associated cars having to pass an emergency exit test. We are familiar with the somewhat involved ritual of the driver quitting the vehicle at the end of the race but this is done at a leisurely pace. If emergency driver exit was timed to a limit that had to be achieved it might have the effect of concentrating thinking on the present exit operations necessary. This is perhaps wishful thinking due to the current driver restraints but it might cause a reappraisal of the equipment used? Indeed has anyone tested/timed how quickly drivers can exit the current set of vehicles in an emergency [simulated]? One consequence might be disqualification of an injured driver from participating till he can pass such a test. Resulting in the question yes you can drive the car but can you get out of it in a hurry?

 

[glojo]

We are accustomed to seeing pit crews changing tyres in several seconds and they have developed this into a fine art by constant practice which is timed. After this accident is there a case for drivers and their associated cars having to pass an emergency exit test. We are familiar with the somewhat involved ritual of the driver quitting the vehicle at the end of the race but this is done at a leisurely pace. If emergency driver exit was timed to a limit that had to be achieved it might have the effect of concentrating thinking on the present exit operations necessary. This is perhaps wishful thinking due to the current driver restraints but it might cause a reappraisal of the equipment used? Indeed has anyone tested/timed how quickly drivers can exit the current set of vehicles in an emergency [simulated]? One consequence might be disqualification of an injured driver from participating till he can pass such a test. Resulting in the question yes you can drive the car but can you get out of it in a hurry?

My own personal thoughts are that yes the driver needs to get out of his car toot sweet but looking at that horrendous incident, what speed did that car collide with the armco? The front of that racing car somehow never even crumbled?? His legs are only intact thanks to the huge strides in racing car development. The de-acceleration never caused him to black-out?? I guess doctors can explain this but I am guessing my eyes would have departed from my cranium!! That whole saga is a tribute to modern car design and the fitness of Grojean who I believe is staying another night in hospital

 

[GeeJayW]

My own personal thoughts are that yes the driver needs to get out of his car toot sweet but looking at that horrendous incident, what speed did that car collide with the armco? The front of that racing car somehow never even crumbled?? His legs are only intact thanks to the huge strides in racing car development. The de-acceleration never caused him to black-out?? I guess doctors can explain this but I am guessing my eyes would have departed from my cranium!! That whole saga is a tribute to modern car design and the fitness of Grojean who I believe is staying another night in hospital

I’ve seen reports of 137mph (220km/h or 61m/s) and 53G...