Formula 1 2022 (Will Contain Spoilers)

[davymead]

Doubt it. They will be back next year. What might hurt is windtunnel time.

Their credibility.

 

[CAMG]

As I said above, cheating is cheating. Impossible surely to make comparisons about who and where.

 

[Mactech]

You can argue which ever way as to wether the penalty to Red Bull fits the crime as we haven't actually been privy to what the 13 (!) items of breach were.
However, this really is a bit rich....however much excess money the team has:

‘We make no apology’ - Horner demands apology from F1 rivals

Christian Horner feels Red Bull’s rivals owe his team an apology for the “reputational damage” caused by “accusations” about their F1 cost cap breach.

www.crash.net

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You can argue which ever way as to wether the penalty to Red Bull fits the crime as we haven't actually been privy to what the 13 (!) items of breach were.
However, this really is a bit rich....however much excess money the team has:

‘We make no apology’ - Horner demands apology from F1 rivals

Christian Horner feels Red Bull’s rivals owe his team an apology for the “reputational damage” caused by “accusations” about their F1 cost cap breach.

www.crash.net

I’m starting to question Horner’s judgement. To me at least there’s a bizarre - and dare I say it dysfunctional- mix of elitist arrogance and paranoid victim’s mentality.

That’s a very unusual combination of traits, which suggests to me that likely the former is Horner’s natural state, and the latter is his go-to defence mechanism.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

$7M fine, 10% aero research deduction

Let’s see whether they end up being $7m over the cost cap in 2022, or whether this can be excluded as part of the allowable adjustments. My bet is on the latter.

At this late stage of the season there is next to no opportunity to genuinely absorb the fine and remain within the cap unless it had been planned for most of the season.

 

[Mactech]

I’m starting to question Horner’s judgement. To me at least there’s a bizarre - and dare I say it dysfunctional- mix of elitist arrogance and paranoid victim’s mentality.

That’s a very unusual combination of traits, which suggests to me that likely the former is Horner’s natural state, and the latter is his go-to defence mechanism.

I think Horner has done a great job in bring Red bull to the top of the F1 tables. I don't know him well, but I can offer two examples of his behaviour which tend to support your observations.
On the one and only occasion I race engineered him, he was the only driver who has broken down in tears when I couldn't magic up a second a lap for him in an F3 car.
From that, I can take it that he is passionate about what he does and possibly that he didn't understand that it takes hard work to on both sides to get that?
I also know that when the opportunity for a little spice in his life came along, a long term relationship was terminated immediately without qualms.
I'm sure he has matured since then, but into what?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Their credibility.

Doubt it. There are masses of RB & MV supporters who simply do not care or even know about it (just not on this forum).

I have no doubt that all the teams cheat in one way or another. Some are smarter than others at not getting caught.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

..................
I also know that when the opportunity for a little spice in his life came along, a long term relationship was terminated immediately without qualms.
..........

It would be / is unfair to judge or comment on what happened in his personal life.

She might have been shagging the 'pool boy’.

Nobody knows what the true status of his previous relationship was.

There are two sides to every story and the truth usually lies somewhere between the two.

 

[baxlin]

Let’s see whether they end up being $7m over the cost cap in 2022, or whether this can be excluded as part of the allowable adjustments. My bet is on the latter.

At this late stage of the season there is next to no opportunity to genuinely absorb the fine and remain within the cap unless it had been planned for most of the season.

The BBC have reported that the fine won’t come out of the 2023 cap, and it’s a bit late for 2022, so who knows?

 

[st13phil]

Doubt it. There are masses of RB & MV supporters who simply do not care or even know about it (just not on this forum).

It's not really about the fans, it’s about the sponsors.

Commercial organisations tend to get queasy about being seen to associate with other companies that are publicly sanctioned for wrongdoings.

Whether any of RBR's sponsors are worried about the situation remains to be seen.

 

[st13phil]

I think Horner has done a great job in bring Red bull to the top of the F1 tables. I don't know him well, but I can offer two examples of his behaviour which tend to support your observations.

I agree that Horner has done well for Red Bull Racing. That said, a friend of mine grew up with CH and has suggested to me in the past that he has some “odd” personality traits that coincide with @Bobby Dazzler's analysis.

 

[Dryce]

I’m starting to question Horner’s judgement. To me at least there’s a bizarre - and dare I say it dysfunctional- mix of elitist arrogance and paranoid victim’s mentality.

I think we see quite a range of successful personalities in F1.

Christian Horner, Ron Dennis, Toto Wolf, Ross Brawn, Flavio Briatore, and Bernie Ecclestone all come to mind as senior people who are hugely successful in the sport.

I don't think they have all come across as being the same - all are different.

I think Chistian Horner is one of the greatest team principals. He has come in young. Built success. And then has gone through a cooler period as Mercedes dominated. He has always had a team that has been super competitive and motivated. That comes from the top. I think we saw a change last year where he has been under even more pressure as the opportunity to get another sequence of championships has been earned. He has to know what is at stake - and he can see that he has Mercedes and Ferrari snapping at his heels. This season is in the bag. There are no guarantees for next seaeson.

My guess is that for Mr Horner the personal stakes are getting higher. He has an opportunity to get another run of championships - 2 in a row in this run - and I'm sure inside he'll want to get more than Ross Brawn and Toto Wolf - and also demonstrate that he could do it more than once in his career.

The energy and work ethic and commitment needed to achieve what he has so far is immense and he's still doing it. Almost 2 decades into his time at Red Bull and still achieving.

 

[190]

It's not really about the fans, it’s about the sponsors.

Commercial organisations tend to get queasy about being seen to associate with other companies that are publicly sanctioned for wrongdoings.

Whether any of RBR's sponsors are worried about the situation remains to be seen.

Ironically, it was sponsors in the form of Mercedes Benz, that pressured Toto to give up on his protest against last years debacle. I wonder if an independent team might have succeeded.

 

[Stratman]

He still doesn't think he's done anything wrong

 

[Deleted member 126251]

It's not really about the fans, it’s about the sponsors.

Commercial organisations tend to get queasy about being seen to associate with other companies that are publicly sanctioned for wrongdoings.

Whether any of RBR's sponsors are worried about the situation remains to be seen.

Let’s watch this space.

Again, I don’t think RB is going to be too concerned.

 

[st13phil]

Again, I don’t think RB is going to be too concerned.

Which is why Horner isn't banging on about "reputational damage"?

Oh, hang on...

 

[Stratman]

As Ferrari have pointed out, because the 10% wind tunnel time reduction hasn't been accompanied by a corresponding budget cut, they're free to spend that money elsewhere on the car.

 

[Dryce]

He still doesn't think he's done anything wrong

I wonder if Mr Horner also goes to Barnard Castle to get his eyes tested.

 

[davymead]

Doubt it. There are masses of RB & MV supporters who simply do not care or even know about it (just not on this forum).

I have no doubt that all the teams cheat in one way or another. Some are smarter than others at not getting caught.

Clearly its not RB or MV supporters I’m talking about.
The discussion amongst my circle of friends is that F1’s credibility is in tatters after a constant stream of PR disasters, coupled with the FIA’s equally disastrous and unsurprising rulings, turning punters away en masse. It would seem that nobody I know likes a cheat. Simple really.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Which is why Horner isn't banging on about "reputational damage"?

Oh, hang on...

You seem selective about what you believe when it comes to his statements.

You believe he is telling the truth when talking about reputational damage yet, choose to disbelieve him when he says they made an honest mistake.

So is he a liar or not?

Can’t have your cake and eat it.