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Formula 1, Moto GP, WSB, 2021 Season

Im not a LH fan but not because of his driving he is a very good driver of the time now he has his match with MV

LH is not just a very good driver he is unquestionably one of the all time greatest drivers.

MV is a very good driver, in fact one of the of very best in terms of skill but he will never be one of the all time greatest drivers in my book until he learns some sportsmanship and plays fair. If he should win this championship it will be for ever tainted.

I don't recall that any of the 7 LH championships are tainted in fact quite the opposite, he would already have 8 if a certain team mate had played fair.
 
MV driving is on par with past World champions there's plenty to choose from who were deamed dangerous (I agree he is all out what ever the out come) Schumacher included as a driver your main aim is to win, if the car slows infront of you you pass it not wait to be told too ,if tracks had gravel pits still instead of run of areas then this championship would be over already!
If Max had the capacity to see a broader picture, this championship would also already be over. A finish in Silverstone for example would have made substantial difference in points. As for his driving, if you can't see the difference between what he does in order to defend say in Brazil and for example what Senna did versus Mansell at Monaco or Alonso vs Hamilton earlier this season, then I'm not sure what you're seeing that I'm not.

If in Abu Dhabi, Max lights it up and scampers away or battles with Lewis and wins without causing a crash, then that's fine. If we end up witnessing a debacle like Senna vs Prost in Japan or Schumacher vs Hill in Adelaide or the clumsy attempt by Schumacher on Villenueve, then champion or not F1 will be the poorer.
 
MV driving is on par with past World champions there's plenty to choose from who were deamed dangerous (I agree he is all out what ever the out come) Schumacher included as a driver your main aim is to win, if the car slows infront of you you pass it not wait to be told too ,if tracks had gravel pits still instead of run of areas then this championship would be over already!

I had the displeasure of watching Senna in 1990 and Schumacher in 1994 and 1997.

I'd rather not see a repeat.
 
I disagree the WDC means the same to both driver's or we wouldn't be having this conversation

I think the reason this situation is occuring is for preceidsely the opposite reason - the EDC means an order of magnitude more to MV than to Sir LH.

(1) The rules are changing - that means the sport gets shaken up
(2) Honda are leaving
(3) It's his first WDC
(4) It's Red Bull's first WDC in nearly a decade
 
I think the reason this situation is occuring is for preceidsely the opposite reason - the EDC means an order of magnitude more to MV than to Sir LH.

(1) The rules are changing - that means the sport gets shaken up
(2) Honda are leaving
(3) It's his first WDC
(4) It's Red Bull's first WDC in nearly a decade
I think Lewis is currently much more interested (read fully motivated and then some) in beating Max and denying him and RBR the championships than he is in achieving his 8th title.
 
I think Lewis is currently much more interested (read fully motivated and then some) in beating Max and denying him and RBR the championships than he is in achieving his 8th title.

I think you may have a point - in which case you might wonder if the RBR reaction to Silverstone isn't behind some of this.

Bit sad though if this really did down to either MV being WDC or stopped from being WDC.

I want MV to win his first WDC and I want Sir LH to get his eighth. So either way this season I get what I want. But I just didn't want MV to be tainted - which mainly goes back to watching things being decided in 1990, 1994 and 1997.
 
LH is not just a very good driver he is unquestionably one of the all time greatest drivers.

MV is a very good driver, in fact one of the of very best in terms of skill but he will never be one of the all time greatest drivers in my book until he learns some sportsmanship and plays fair. If he should win this championship it will be for ever tainted.

I don't recall that any of the 7 LH championships are tainted in fact quite the opposite, he would already have 8 if a certain team mate had played fair.
I'm not going down that route
He is the best driver of his time NOT 1 of the greatest ever !
 
He's had the best car and no competition for a number of year's
Yes he can drive i don't disagree but imo he's no Schumacher,prost or senna the records he's now beating are quite easy in today's cars
We'll see what happens next season when Russell gets a competitive car and i hope there is no team 1 and 2 driver's
 
Just a few points on the race from my perspective.

1. There is no rule about 10 car lengths on a restart, only on a formation lap
2. Bottas did go slowly, but it was checked and no action taken. Red Bull would have done the same
3. Max wound himself up and lost the first restart, he needed to focus on himself. He could have slowed down and reduced the gap
4. Max's driving was dangerous. He overshot the corner to ensure Lewis would not overtake him. This would push Lewis out wide or they would collide, he didn't care.
5. Lewis had to take avoiding action on several occasions or his race would have ended early
6. The first Red Flag was called very late. A similar incident happened in FP3 with LeClerc and it was Red Flagged immediately. Lewis' radio was broadcast but I'm sure others complained too.
7. Max braked 2.4G and was predominately to blame, even though Marko had stated that Max did not brake and they have the telemetry to prove it. 10 secs is beyond soft for that action. Lewididn't get the message and was confused as to why he slowed down. They both wanted to make the DRS line last and tbh Lewis doesn't trust him not to run into him and he was correct to be cautious. He should have just zipped past him but I can't say what went through his head. When a driver gives a place back, they lift off (it's sufficient) and gives way. Red Bull were just as much at fault for telling him to do it strategically. It even bought a smile to Toto's face lol.

Max is a very quick driver but his attitude to the rules and other drivers is appalling. He tried everything he could to ensure Lewis did not pass him, even if that meant crashing into him. Look at his attitude a couple of seasons ago when Ocon made a mistake and tagged him, he went to the back and shoved him. His disregard for the safety of others is not a role model for younger drivers in lower categories. This coupled with the backing of his management who will NEVER say when he's wrong shows their desperation.
His move on the 2nd restart on the inside of Lewis was brilliant, caught him napping and got him into the lead. He has the talent and should use it to win the WDC, not trying to scare others who don't know if he's going to crash into them or not. He seemed to have matured earlier this season but as it's gone on, he's back to his irresponsible self. Some of the moves he did yesterday are what you would expect in lower Formulae when drivers are not experienced. Was skipping the lower Formulae the cause? I don't know. All I can say is yes he's right up there as one of the quickest but not one of the best. He doesn't deserve to be WDC IMO as I don't think his sort of driver should be a role model for others or someone the sport displays as the best they have this year.

A lot of Max's fans seem to support him because they hate Hamilton, I don't agree with that. I support Lewis but when he's driven silly, I would agree as an F1/racing fan. In the same way, Max's fans should deter him from driving dangerously instead of feeding his ego and voting him as driver of the day.
 
I have no particular like of Lewis Hamilton, but to say he’s not one of the greatest racing drivers ever is somewhat disingenuous to put it mildly.
My only bias is loving the National Anthem played over the winners podium.
 
I'm not going down that route
He is the best driver of his time NOT 1 of the greatest ever !

Bizarre logic.

If he the best of his time .... then that would indeed suggest one of the greatest ever.

(Moreover LH hasn't exactly had a short time in the sport either 7 - possibly 8 WDCs over a decade and a half)

It's not as if F1 has been around for a thousand years and there are hundreds of WDCs.
 
He's had the best car and no competition for a number of year's
Yes he can drive i don't disagree but imo he's no Schumacher,prost or senna the records he's now beating are quite easy in today's cars
We'll see what happens next season when Russell gets a competitive car and i hope there is no team 1 and 2 driver's
Hmm…
Schumacher, Prost, didn’t do much in less than the best car.

At Benetton Schumacher benefitted from illegal traction control. When he went to Ferrari, he worked with Todt, Braun and Byrne who were all key in getting the Ferrari car up to the top level. So when Michael was winning championships with them, it was arguably in a car that was the class of the field.

Senna, demonstrated how good he was in Monaco in a Toleman where Prost’s buddy Jean Marie Balstre contrived to stop the race to ensure a Prost victory. Did it again at Donnington in the wet in a very under-powered McLaren. Astonishing opening lap. Blotted his copy book in Japan though for me.

The Mercedes hasn’t always been the best car even in the hybrid era. Seb had a better Ferrari with a healthy mid-season lead, but still didn’t get it done. The Red Bull has been better at times this season, hasn’t always got the job done. Maybe they will this year.

I think Jim Clark was probably the best, but there are good arguments in favour of several drivers being ‘the best’. I think Lewis is in that conversation.

Anyway, we could discuss over a beer or six who was the best etc. Who knows, maybe one day we will…🍻
 
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Max is a very quick driver but his attitude to the rules and other drivers is appalling. He tried everything he could to ensure Lewis did not pass him, even if that meant crashing into him. Look at his attitude a couple of seasons ago when Ocon made a mistake and tagged him, he went to the back and shoved him. His disregard for the safety of others is not a role model for younger drivers in lower categories. This coupled with the backing of his management who will NEVER say when he's wrong shows their desperation.
^ This. All of it, in spades.

Which has been to a great extent caused by...
But instead, he is given a slap on the wrist with a wet lettuce. absolutely no meaningful deterrent.
That should see a stop to that sort of dangerous behaviour then.....
As he has such obvious disdain for rules and the safety of other drivers, he should have received a penalty that meant he couldn't win the WDC by taking both Hamilton and himself out in the last race. That is the only punishment that he would understand, and would have gone a long way to ensuring that he raced cleanly in Abu Dhabi. As it is, I suspect we will see him "crowned" as WDC by dint of him causing a crash.

The failure to penalise MV very heavily for what he did in Brazil will have long-term ramifications for F1 that are far from good.
 
He has the talent and should use it to win the WDC, not trying to scare others who don't know if he's going to crash into them or not. He seemed to have matured earlier this season but as it's gone on, he's back to his irresponsible self. Some of the moves he did yesterday are what you would expect in lower Formulae when drivers are not experienced. Was skipping the lower Formulae the cause? I don't know. All I can say is yes he's right up there as one of the quickest but not one of the best. He doesn't deserve to be WDC IMO as I don't think his sort of driver should be a role model for others or someone the sport displays as the best they have this year.

If you are suggesting that some of the moves reminded you of a lower formula - is that not in part a reflection of how close MV in a Red Bull and LH in a Mercedes actually are on track? What we are seeing is something that we normally moan about not seeing - which is close racing.

In F1 we have got used to strategic managed racing.

What we have this year at some venues are the two top teams and two top drivers actually slugging it out for once.

So for once we are actually seeing F1 cars being used for close quarter battles *at the front*.

And we have two drivers who will try to pass. And as the season has progressed - feel they have to pass.
 
As he has such obvious disdain for rules and the safety of other drivers, he should have received a penalty that meant he couldn't win the WDC by taking both Hamilton and himself out in the last race. That is the only punishment that he would understand, and would have gone a long way to ensuring that he raced cleanly in Abu Dhabi. As it is, I suspect we will see him "crowned" as WDC by dint of him causing a crash.

Maybe take away half a point instead of the meaningless 10s.

I think if I was Mercedes then I'd think about toughening up the car suspension and wing parts for next week.
 
Maybe take away half a point instead of the meaningless 10s.
A 30-second penalty, resulting in MV being demoted to 3rd place and the promotion of VB to 2nd, would have sent a strong message. It would have meant that MV could still win the WDC if he won at Abu Dhabi and Hamilton came 2nd or lower but, that he would lose if he took them both out. It would also have hit RBR where it hurts (Horner & Marko should feel the heat too, imo, as they are in part responsible for the situation) by effectively denying them the WCC.

I suspect that part of the reason it didn't happen like that is due to the tiny margin VB had over Ocon at the finish, meaning that such a penalty would have demoted MV to 4th and therefore requiring Hamilton to finish lower than 2nd and MV to win at Abu Dhabi to secure the WDC.
 
Well this has got us all talking and I hope we all watch a quite outstanding race next weekend (CLEAN) it will be a fitting end to the season WHO ever wins 🏆
 
My understanding is the penalties are pre determined for the specific offence rather the metered out at what would be considered fair or appropriate for the current standing in the championship. SO to that end the stewards are somewhat tied.
 

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