Halloween special: C43 AMG vs Nissan 200sx (Stage 1)

[Gridlock]

I asked the same thing when I first joined, because I too read the manual (well, the 3 manuals!) and it seemed that it was just for towing (even though the manual also says "towing is not permitted in the C43" - very German).

I don't go up and down the gears like a tiptronic but I do sometimes lock it either for controllable oversteer or responsive speed changes.

Anyone got a more educated opinion?

 

[Gridlock]

200SX has one of the lowest drag co-efficients of any car, ever (something to do with the undertray, iirc).

Just to throw that out there.

 

[GrahamC230K]

Having had the pleasure of keeping an E46 M3 for 6 months a few years ago, one that had 60k miles on, I can guarantee that 540i or mildly kevved up 200sx would have trouble even seeing which way it went, let alone challenge it in any way shape or form.

Lets keep this fair.

The forum staff nor myself personally are too keen on the street racing element to this post.

However, jumping from talking about a stage 1 tuned 200sx and a "kevved up 200sx" sounds unfair to me. Despite liking them, I'm not much up on them but I beleive a stage 1 200sx to be about 270BHP. And as already stated they are not heavy, which doesn't put it leagues apart from our benchmark E46 M3.

It is also quite surpising how much of a power difference (or power to wait ratio difference) it takes to make a car noteably quicker IMO. Add to that an uncontrolled comparison (ie on the road) which can make a car appear much slower or indeed quicker than it would perform in fair test, it's not surprising we have a few differences of opinion.

One things for sure, the public road isn't the place to be sorting this out. A day at a drag strip, a 30-130 (really want to do one of these) or VMAX type event is. Sure we all have encounters on the road, but the maturity and skill is in the self control to prevent a natural encounter becoming street racing. IMO of course!

 

[andrewcliffe]

200SX has one of the lowest drag co-efficients of any car, ever (something to do with the undertray, iirc).

Just to throw that out there.

Would you like to back that up with sources? From my 5 minutes research its reputed to be 0.33, whereas there are plenty of cars under 0.30 with some approaching 0.25.

The Vauxhall Calibra is a remarkably slippery shape.

 

[GrahamC230K]

I'm after a good source to compare several different cars drag co-efficients. Have you got one?

 

[Howard]

Doesn't always have Cd , but useful for comparing just about everthing else ...

Manufacturer / Make / Brand

 

[BTB 500]

Would you like to back that up with sources? From my 5 minutes research its reputed to be 0.33

Which funnily enough is also the Cd for the current shape (639) Vito van!

Aerodynamics have progressed enormously ... the Rover SD1 was considered pretty sleek in its day, yet had a Cd of 0.39.

 

[Adam230K]

Not the last word Adam , but splitting hairs like that is what we used to do in the playground, not the real world.

Glad you like your new car. Have you done a detailed picture thread of it yet ?

I will soon, i just need to get the chance to wash it properly and i will do exactly that

Having had the pleasure of keeping an E46 M3 for 6 months a few years ago, one that had 60k miles on, I can guarantee that 540i or mildly kevved up 200sx would have trouble even seeing which way it went, let alone challenge it in any way shape or form.

If you were to meet a 'kevved up' 200SX in your M3, i'm so sure that you would be the one who wouldn't see which way it went. I love german cars much more then i like Jap cars, but i can acknowledge that those cars when tuned can challenge some of the fastest german cars around.

Also, the 540i weighs 1660kg, the M3 weighs 1630kg, the only thing setting them apart is the horsepower . I'm sure an E46 M3 would beat the 540i hands down, but it wont be a walk in the park for the M3 in the way that you are stating IMHO.

C43 vs M3 is something i'd like to see!

 

[GrahamC230K]

C43 vs M3 is something i'd like to see!

I know which I'd back!

 

[Barbanasos]

Adam the e46 M3 will beat the C43, and even more your 540. It will also probably just edge my 2000 e55 as well. The e46 M3s are very fast and in a completely different league of the 321bhp of the e36 evo;

I can probably do well against it front a standing start, but having seen some races on youtube the cars are near matches. On a rolling start or the motorway again is bordeline with the 55.

And the 55 is a fast car, as in the 1998 original Evo magazine I have the comparison against the Alpina tuned e39 B10 with 4.4 ltrs and 340bhp and the drivers comented that although the alpina was a fast car with better handling it still could not match the pace of the 55.

Its good though to discuss things like that and share views.

 

[Howard]

M3 ( E46 ) weighs 1470kg apparently , you are correct about the 540 weighing 1660kg though ...

BMW E46 Coupe M3 car, information, technical specifications, specs, data

BMW E39 540i car, information, technical specifications, specs, data

 

[Mark300SL]

Honda CRX 1800 turbo

1010kg 342 FWHP @ 12.8psi boost = bye bye most exotica at the dragstrip
Winter revamp will yield 400whp without pushing the boost too far and in the last year we haven't even turned the 40hp shot of Nitrous on

The actual facts are that when given a lot of right foot it is far too brutal for the average road in this country - so we plod around with 300hp and very much partial throttle on an everyday basis and even that is sufficient to worry most things on the road.


Power is nothing without control
Just because you can - It doesn't mean you should!



Mark


.

 

[Peter DLM]

IIf you were to meet a 'kevved up' 200SX in your M3, i'm so sure that you would be the one who wouldn't see which way it went. I love german cars much more then i like Jap cars, but i can acknowledge that those cars when tuned can challenge some of the fastest german cars around.

Also, the 540i weighs 1660kg, the M3 weighs 1630kg, the only thing setting them apart is the horsepower . I'm sure an E46 M3 would beat the 540i hands down, but it wont be a walk in the park for the M3 in the way that you are stating IMHO.

C43 vs M3 is something i'd like to see!

Wind your neck in sonny. Ok, I obviously exagerated the situation slightly, but the effect is the same. In the days when I was your age I owned and raced a lot of cars, the most powerful car being a Severn Valley 500rwhp Cosworth, there is a lot more to straight line performance than just power to weight ratios. You'll learn that gearing will have an effect and the short standard gears of the SX won't make full use of the additional power that it now has. The M3 having gear/final drive ratios to suit its power and power curve will give it a disproportional speed advantage given the 'mere' 50hp difference between the two.

An E46 M3 and your 540i weighing the same? M3 is around 1550kg depending on spec.

 

[James Rothwell]

E46 M3 is a very, very fast car. Having driven 540i both manual and auto and driven M3 manual only I can say rhe M3 is a lot faster at both sheer acceleration and cornering speeds. My friend used to have a 200SX and from 60mph my S500 was quicker and I know an M3 is quicker than my S500.

 

[nick mercedes]

If you were to meet a 'kevved up' 200SX in your M3, i'm so sure that you would be the one who wouldn't see which way it went. I love german cars much more then i like Jap cars, but i can acknowledge that those cars when tuned can challenge some of the fastest german cars around.

We should have an MBclub meetup at a track somewhere, then we'll see who's got the quickest sickest street racer, possibly best to give drifting a miss though after your mate (on the other thread) hit something more solid than his car. I'll bring my van, it's the quickest van in the south, the other day someone in a transit luton tried it on, I showed him...

 

[Howard]

I can vouch for this ... being a passenger in that van terrifies me ( and makes me sick )

 

[nick mercedes]

I can vouch for this ... being a passenger in that van terrifies me ( and makes me sick )

My van's sick....

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A trip to the pod would be a great day out. I suspect it would only be a core few who attend, but would be fun and informative!!

A quick Google made it difficult to get reliable figures for the 200SX, as the name is used for a different model in other markets. I think the Japanese spec Silvia is a sister car.

It's worth noting that drag coefficient is only part of equation - the sectional area is also important - and being such a low car, the the 200SX/Silvia probably scores well here.

That said, for aero drag to be decider in performance it would have to be well into silly speeds for the road. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that drag race.

 

[Gridlock]

We should have an MBclub meetup at a track somewhere, then we'll see who's got the quickest sickest street racer

Hmm, what to bring...

The Cd on the 200SX, I'm sure I read that it was unusually low and this is why they often use them for hypermilers etc - but looking at the stats this isn't right, either I'm getting it confused with another similar car or I'm just getting old and senile

 

[timskemp]

I'll bring my 1.6 Volvo - It'll smoke all your AMG and M stuff, only a T5 would be quicker