Has UK enough generating power for electric cars , heat pumps and all other requirements

[Fastcar155]

Hi , very good point about distances traveled between major cities. Perhaps that should have been though about prior to the legislation being introduced.

In Portugal the sale of new cars is low in comparison to the UK but the main seller seems to be petrol hybrid cars.

The numbers of battery charge points in Portugal is low ( In the Algarve )

 

[markjay]

Hi , very good point about distances traveled between major cities. Perhaps that should have been though about prior to the legislation being introduced.

In Portugal the sale of new cars is low in comparison to the UK but the main seller seems to be petrol hybrid cars.

The numbers of battery charge points in Portugal is low ( In the Algarve )

I think it's obvious that government policies in various countries do make a difference.

Where the government incentives EVs they sell better than in countries where the government policies do not support this.

In the same vein, if the government didn't build roads tunnels and bridges, few people would have a car... etc.

 

[190]

Hi , how long will it be before someone in government states we give up on electric cars.

That's not going to happen. But if you ask how long will it take for Conservative MPs to give up on EV's then some of them already have.

Sunak only did half of the job when he put back the date from 2030 to 2035. What he didn't do was to rescind the intention to fine manufacturers if they failed to meet the government's quota's for percentage of EV sales each year between next year and 2030. The measure to implement this only succeeded because of Labour support as 26 conservative MPS rebelled against it some of which were former cabinet ministers, Suella Braverman being one of course.

The 2030 to 2035 move was plain common sense and brought us in line with most everywhere else. I gave Sunak full marks for pulling back from a position that was only ever Boris's virtue signalling. He should then have followed that up by a realistic timescale for attempting to enforce quotas on the manufacturers. His failure to do that is worrying and the opposition to it is plain to see. In any case it's a political gamble to try and overcome market forces with a lot of potential for it to back fire on him or more likely Starmer. We are either going to end up with manufacturers out of pocket which can only mean more expensive cars or there will be a shortage of cars. There will particularly be a shortage of small cars. To me such a result is completely lacking in any common sense and probably not even good for the environment. He deserved to be embarrassed by those 26 MP's

https://archive.ph/7DY90

 

[ALFAitalia]

But...

From the SMMT mag...

Manufacturers have broadly welcomed the introduction of the ZEV mandate, with many committing to completely phase out petrol and diesel by 2030 ahead of the mandated target. (2030 was the original date for a UK-wide ban on petrol and diesel cars, which Prime Minister Rishi Sunak pushed back to 2035 as part of a recent policy shift.)


They need to 22% of all cars sold in 2024 to be EV to avoid fines....that's a lot IMO.

 

[rf065]

In the same vein, if the government didn't build roads tunnels and bridges, few people would have a car... etc.

And therein lies the problem, the government is mainly Londoncentric, expense accounts for everything, flights, trains, taxis etc etc. MP's will rarely drive themselves anywhere but will happily force through legislation based on "their understanding" of how people need to move about.
HS2, no problem, how many billions will we through at it? Get everyone into EV's, not a problem in London, we'll have chargers on the lamposts.
Move to the sticks, say north of Scotland or most other rural places, no m/ways, hardly any train/bus services and I've never seen a charger on a lampost yet!

The government are great at providing roads, tunnels, bridges etc, just not outside the bottom half of England. Anywhere else, you need to beg for decades before anything is upgraded, if it ever is!
People need cars precisely because the goverment have completely failed public transport outwith London and the major cities.

 

[Fastcar155]

Hi , fines equates to price increases with the customer paying for the punishment!

 

[st13phil]

They need to 22% of all cars sold in 2024 to be EV to avoid fines....that's a lot IMO.

Based on current EV sales numbers (there was a 17% slump in EV sales in November), many manufacturers will struggle to meet that proportion.

AIUI, there's a flat £15k "fine" levied on the manufacturer for every non-EV sold above the 78% limit. The perverse effect of that is likely to be that smaller, lower priced, ICE cars disappear from the market (like Ford's deletion of the Fiesta) while the £15k levy will be collected by increasing the price of high-end, large, luxury cars. Genius.

 

[markjay]

Based on current EV sales numbers (there was a 17% slump in EV sales in November), many manufacturers will struggle to meet that proportion.

AIUI, there's a flat £15k "fine" levied on the manufacturer for every non-EV sold above the 78% limit. The perverse effect of that is likely to be that smaller, lower priced, ICE cars disappear from the market (like Ford's deletion of the Fiesta) while the £15k levy will be collected by increasing the price of high-end, large, luxury cars. Genius.

Looks like the idea is to make ICE cars sold above the quota on-par with - or more expensive than - a comparable EV.

So only those who really need an ICE car and can't possibly manage without one will buy them - the rest will simply overcome their resistance and just get on with an EV.

 

[Dryce]

Based on current EV sales numbers (there was a 17% slump in EV sales in November), many manufacturers will struggle to meet that proportion.

I made a comment on the adjacent fact thread that while November BEV figures have slumped - but that other EV variations (eg. PHEV) have increased.

 

[Dryce]

Britain has 43.2 gigawatts of installed capacity in wind and solar. Currently they are generating 1.4 gigawatts. Gas (28.6 gigawatts) is making up the difference.

It's pretty windy today - so over the day we've been getting consistently around 20GW from wind. Not much solar and not very much hydro.

 

[st13phil]

But, but, but... I thought the National Grid said their infrastructure could cope? Well, apparently that was (yet) another lie:

Electricity upgrade plan includes miles of pylons

New undersea cables and on shore power lines including pylons could add up to £30 a year to energy bills, a new plan suggests.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But...

From the SMMT mag...

Manufacturers have broadly welcomed the introduction of the ZEV mandate, with many committing to completely phase out petrol and diesel by 2030 ahead of the mandated target. (2030 was the original date for a UK-wide ban on petrol and diesel cars, which Prime Minister Rishi Sunak pushed back to 2035 as part of a recent policy shift.)


They need to 22% of all cars sold in 2024 to be EV to avoid fines....that's a lot IMO.

Exactly. Folks don’t understand what’s going on if they think Rishi made a big change in moving the ban back from 2030 to 2035. All the interim deadlines, and fines, are still there.

Which is why Joanna Public can no longer buy small, fuel efficient ICE hatchbacks, like the Fiesta and Focus.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

But, but, but... I thought the National Grid said their infrastructure could cope? Well, apparently that was (yet) another lie:

Electricity upgrade plan includes miles of pylons

New undersea cables and on shore power lines including pylons could add up to £30 a year to energy bills, a new plan suggests.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s naive to think that our infrastructure can be frozen to its year 2000 structure.

Our factories, offices and homes use far less energy than they did 24 years ago but new applications and areas come on stream all the time

 

[st13phil]

It’s naive to think that our infrastructure can be frozen to its year 2000 structure.

I completely agree. Which is why it was always dishonest for politicians and the NG to peddle the myth (not that long ago) that our infrastructure would cope with the mass shift in demand location and scale and changes to generation locations, so they could sell the transition to "green energy" and "green EV's" to a gullible public.

On the subject of new applications, there are already warning bells being sounded about the massive increase in energy requirements to support AI computing but - as usual, as it's inconvenient - they're being ignored.

 

[ALFAitalia]

There is without doubt enough electricity to power EVs....even if we all went EV tomorrow.....its just what percentage of that power would be of the green/sustainable variety. But even then the % of renewables grows every year. Even if ALL the power needed to power EV was from gas/coal or whatever powered stations it would still be massively more efficient with way less carbon output per mile travelled than powering cars with fossil fuels like petrol or diesel. Lots of nonsense talked about us not having enough power....see the EV car thread for details!!!

Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles | National Grid Group

Can the electricity grid cope with more EVs? And what really happens to old EV batteries? Find out the answer to these and many more questions about electric vehicles in our comprehensive EV myth-buster.

www.nationalgrid.com

 

[markjay]

It’s naive to think that our infrastructure can be frozen to its year 2000 structure.

Our factories, offices and homes use far less energy than they did 24 years ago but new applications and areas come on stream all the time

As others have pointed out, the issue isn't with the overall power generation capacity in the UK, but with the power distribution infrastructure in some regions.

One thing to note, is that new factories (and datacentres) are intentionally built in locations that have the power generation and distribution required to support them (or these facilities are built into the construction project).

Understandably, some existing urban centres and some rural areas do not currently have the right infrastructure to support an increase in power consumption, but we can remove the big industrial consumers from the equation because - as said - they are built in (or relocate to) areas where the grid can support them.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Understandably, some existing urban centres and some rural areas do not currently have the right infrastructure to support an increase in power consumption, but we can remove the big industrial consumers from the equation because - as said - they are built in (or relocate to) areas where the grid can support them.

A windfall (or landfall) for Cornwall and East Anglia where the big international “pipes” are being laid to receive (and transmit) electricity.

(Assuming East Anglia doesn’t go under water from Climate change)

 

[ALFAitalia]

(Assuming East Anglia doesn’t go under water from Climate change)

Well East Anglia looked like this just 10,000 years ago so it could happen........obviously it went under because of all the human carbon output from heavy industry, planes and ICE cars!!! Obviously whoever decided to call the submerged area Doggerland had a sense of humour.


Well

 

[markjay]

Well East Anglia looked like this just 10,000 years ago so it could happen........obviously it went under because of all the human carbon output from heavy industry, planes and ICE cars!!! Obviously whoever decided to call the submerged area Doggerland had a sense of humour.


WellView attachment 154521

On the plus side, back then they had no issues with illegal immigrants crossing on dinghies....

 

[ALFAitalia]

Or expensive Ferry tickets.....