help:W203 C270 dirt/oil on the turbo air inlet manifold

[1998K]

What can be?
I've asked the dealer to change the inlet manifolt due to the fact there was dirty/oily in on the turbocharger inlet, on the air suction manifold I mean.

Now after some days and few kilometers, it seems me that the dirt is again!

What could be?

Car have only 25000km

thanks a lot for any suggestion.

 

[spitzkop]

On these engines, you have a pipe which goes from the airfilter to the turbo compressor inlet. Halfway along this pipe is a T-junction, with a smaller pipe feeding off to the Cylinder head, to a black thick disc object (oil seperator). The oil seperator and the thin pipe leak and also oil comes within this pipe from the Cylinder/crankshaft and is sent through the turbo and combusted (normal). Could be that your just seeing a leak on this pipe, which is simple to replace. The temperature sensor on this pipe often lets oil through it as well.

EDIT: Are you quoting the actual Inlet Manifold, ie. the section with five silver plastic fingers covering it, or the actual turbo side, just forward of the exhaust manifold?

 

[1998K]

thanks a lot, sorry my bad explanation, I was referring to the big pipe/tube in the inlet part of the turbocharger, from the air box to the turbocharger suction. That pipe! there is oily dirt on the junt with the turbocharger!

 

[Dieselman]

There will be.
As said it's engine breather oil mist.

 

[spitzkop]

Simple solution, buy the pipe + temperature sensor (comes as 1 item from memory). Very simple job to replace, just unplug the sensor lead and pull the pipe out from the seperator and the compressor inlet pipe. Clean thoroughly all the junctions then put new pipe in place. If the oil seperator has signs of oil (ie. the black plastic has taken on an oil stain or there is oil in the dimple just below it) then replace.

 

[1998K]

Thanks a lot for your help

I'll verify as suggested in your last post spitzcop.

So considering what you are suggesting, the Dealer changed without any real reason the "compressor inlet pipe", they were thinking that the dirt came from that junktion with the compressor.

In fact I was thinking what dirt may come off from there, considering there should be only claen air from the air filter.

Instead probably the dirt come from the pipe with the oil separator.

Thanks so much. I'll better verify, looking for the oil separator, even if at memory all seems me clear in that area

Marco

 

[1998K]

There will be.
As said it's engine breather oil mist.

how dirt are those diesel engines!!

it seems normal but is it better to exclude some dirty devices, i.e. EGR valve and variuos oil mist breather. Do you have any suggestion please?)

 

[Satch]

how dirt are those diesel engines!!

it seems normal but it should be better to exclude some dirty devices (i.e. EGR valve , do you have any suggestion please?)

Sounds to me like your deposits are on the low pressure inlet to the turbo? That is upstream of the EGR system, which is directly into the inlet manifold via the EGR valve.

All that is on the output side of the turbo so would not be crud from recirculated exhaust gas.

 

[spitzkop]

I've spent a couple of years working in Roma and Milano and from memory, Italy being a hot country (lucky people ) is dusty. Any oil leaking out would attract this dust. The other possibility is you have a leaking exhaust seal (turbo turbine to pre-cat, uses a graphite-carbon seal which the turbo and pre-cat swivel on, this does break/go kaput) which is allowing carbon to fill the engine compartment and this carbon will stick to the oil leaks.

The turbo system has to be 100% Clean, except for the oil vapour which aids in keeping the compressor blades in good condition (not rusting). If you have dirt getting into the turbo compressor, then the turbo will disintegrate quickly because an oil/dirt compound is an abrasive, also other parts of the engine will get damaged. On these models, a rubber sleave is put onto the turbo-compressor inlet between the turbo and the air pipe to ensure a very good seal is made so as not to allow contaminates to be sucked into the compressor.

 

[1998K]

Sounds to me like your deposits are on the low pressure inlet to the turbo? .

yes, Dealer changed that inlet pipe due to the fact I've pointed out presence of dirt on the METAL compressor part (air inlet) of the turbocharger, after few days and abt 200km I've done a look and I found a black drop (oil or diesel?) on the same metal part!

All around the tube/compressor joint I can see black deposit (may be carbon seal deposit as suggested by Spitzkop, or only dirt as I hope actually)

I'll better investigate but as said all around seems me very clean (car have only 25000km).

 

[1998K]

On these models, a rubber sleave is put onto the turbo-compressor inlet between the turbo and the air pipe to ensure a very good seal is made so as not to allow contaminates to be sucked into the compressor.

If I'm not wrong at first the dealer wanted to change only the seal, unfortunately it seems that the single part are not directly available, so they ordered the entire inlet tube with the seal itself, part cost abt 80Euro if I well remember

 

[spitzkop]

If I'm not wrong at first the dealer wanted to change only the seal, unfortunately it seems that the single part are not directly available, so they ordered the entire inlet tube with the seal itself, part cost abt 80Euro if I well remember

They are available seperately, you just need the right part number A612 094 00 51 and cost EUR1.49! Jubilee clip which holds it and the pipe in place is A 006 997 26 90 and cost EUR0.96!

It does sound very much like the breather pipe/temp sensor is leaking, then the oil is seeping down and stopping on the turbo air inlet as the turbo compressor is at the lowest point. The other possibilities to consider are that the high pressure oil feed from the Cylinder head into the top of the turbo is leaking! I cant remember the position of this feed line, wether it crosses near to the turbo inlet, but I doubt it would be the cause. Get a cleaning rag out wipe down the entire pipe section (breather pipe, air inlet pipe) and dust it with chalk powder, then after another 200km, have a look and you should see where the oil is coming from.

 

[1998K]

They are available seperately, you just need the right part number A612 094 00 51 and cost EUR1.49! Jubilee clip which holds it and the pipe in place is A 006 997 26 90 and cost EUR0.96!

It does sound very much like the breather pipe/temp sensor is leaking, then the oil is seeping down and stopping on the turbo air inlet as the turbo compressor is at the lowest point. The other possibilities to consider are that the high pressure oil feed from the Cylinder head into the top of the turbo is leaking! I cant remember the position of this feed line, wether it crosses near to the turbo inlet, but I doubt it would be the cause. Get a cleaning rag out wipe down the entire pipe section (breather pipe, air inlet pipe) and dust it with chalk powder, then after another 200km, have a look and you should see where the oil is coming from.

Dear spitzkop, you are the BEST.


I'm with you about the high pressure oil feed, it should be on top of turbocharger, and so I've well noted any leak.

really I appreciate your help. I'll follow your suggestion

In any case I'm a little bit dazed because we are discussing about a "normal" condition in which the suction pipes are subject of any sort of oily deposit due to EGR, breathe devices, that's so strange to me, I was used to a petrol W202, withour EGR

Thanks again
Marco

 

[1998K]

They are available seperately, you just need the right part number A612 094 00 51 and cost EUR1.49! Jubilee clip which holds it and the pipe in place is A 006 997 26 90 and cost EUR0.96!

too late, I've already paid for all, thanks to the Dealer parts Guy, so clever

 

[1998K]

UPDATING

I've done a quick check yesterday.

All the pipes and tube look clean externally but but, as soon I stop the engine after a trip, I can well see a drop of oil that born on the external metal surface of the turbo compressor inlet.

Look like the above mentioned rubber sleave put onto the turbo-compressor inlet (between the turbo and the air pipe) is leaking the same oil that INTERNALLY the air pipe itself come down from the above breather device pipe!

So my questions basically 2:

1) how is possible it's still leaking since I've done the work exactly 1 week ago ! May be they have changed the air pipe keeping the old gasket!?
No comment

2) how is possible (I mean is it normal, and good) that all this oil is produced from the engine breather devices!?

It seems it's not a big problem but really annoy me.

thanks

 

[spitzkop]

I changed my entire system a while back (turbo, pipes etc) and I didnt install the rubber sleeve as I found it wasnt needed (the pipe I had was rubberised) and it added a failure possibility in-so-much that if you didnt install the sleeve correctly, it could break up and destroy your turbo. Having taken the decision to install the pipe without the sleeve, I havent noticed any oil leaking from this junction.

You either have a faulty or wrongly installed sleeve, there is a crack on the air pipe or a crack on the turbo (hope not and more than probably not).

The oil mist is standard on just about all cars going and it was a requirement that this waste oil/air was burnt in the engine (some anti-pollution law I think). It is normal and it is also helping to protect the turbo. If too much oil is being burnt (ie. you need to keep on topping up your engine oil every few thousand km), then it could be the seperator is not performing its job. This device is designed to filter out most of the oil.

Try the chalk test just to verify that the oil isnt leaking higher up near the breather and migrating downwards. It only takes a minute oil trail to trickle down for you to see a drop of oil on the compressor inlet.

 

[1998K]

I changed my entire system a while back (turbo, pipes etc) and I didnt install the rubber sleeve as I found it wasnt needed (the pipe I had was rubberised) and it added a failure possibility in-so-much that if you didnt install the sleeve correctly, it could break up and destroy your turbo. Having taken the decision to install the pipe without the sleeve, I havent noticed any oil leaking from this junction.

You either have a faulty or wrongly installed sleeve, there is a crack on the air pipe or a crack on the turbo (hope not and more than probably not).

The oil mist is standard on just about all cars going and it was a requirement that this waste oil/air was burnt in the engine (some anti-pollution law I think). It is normal and it is also helping to protect the turbo. If too much oil is being burnt (ie. you need to keep on topping up your engine oil every few thousand km), then it could be the seperator is not performing its job. This device is designed to filter out most of the oil.

Try the chalk test just to verify that the oil isnt leaking higher up near the breather and migrating downwards. It only takes a minute oil trail to trickle down for you to see a drop of oil on the compressor inlet.

Thanks, you have well set up my situation , please do you have also a 270 cdi engine?

I'm not a mechanic but I'm quite able to perform some DIY maintenance job, and I prefer to change by myself as much as possible, mainly in order to be sure that the work is done properly , so I'll check the rubber sleeve installation and possible cracking (hoping NO) in the turbo-charger inlet manifold.

In case I'll put off the rubber sleeve, I'm wondering if is possible to utilize some sealant (wondering about "silicone") to better seal.

Actually it seems that car do not eat oil, as said it has 25000km. In any case is it possible to check/test if separator work well?

thanks again

 

[spitzkop]

NO!!! (sorry to shout, 1998K), but dont use anything on the compressor inlet. The suction from the inlet is immense, it can suck your flesh off (not sure if it actually can, but at 2000rpm it certainly tried ripping my flesh off), so sealant will be just pulled in and damage the blade, valves, intercooler etc. Be very careful with the seal, if you pull it off, you must fit the seal to the compressor inlet first, then fit the pipe over it, taking extreme care not to concertina the seal. I have the 270cdi engine and have replaced the entire turbo system (pulled it apart several times), hence Im able to give some advise as to my discoveries and analysis.

If your car isnt using oil then somewhere on that pipe is a leak, but the nature of the leak will be from the breather pipe whilst the engine is running or from the air inlet pipe when the engine is stopped (this is because of the suction pressure from the Turbo, the breather pipe is not experiencing the same suction pressures).

 

[1998K]

Probably you saved me thanks for your suggestion!

I'll put the factory gasket sealant or, as done by you, nothing, OK.

Please have you ever dismounted also the EGR valve? Since I've heard several bad stories about dirt from the exhaust do you suggest any routine maintenance cleaning of the devices and relevant inlet manifold?

Is it easy to dismount and clean, otherwise is it possible/suggested to utilize some suitable inlet manifold cleaning spray?

Last question, hope so, does the ECU manage the EGR valve or, in this engine, it's only managed from the pressure pipe above?

Thanks

Marco

 

[1998K]

Probably you saved me thanks for your suggestion!

I'll put the factory gasket sealant or, as done by you, nothing, OK.

Please have you ever dismounted also the EGR valve? Since I've heard several bad stories about dirt from the exhaust do you suggest any routine maintenance cleaning of the devices and relevant inlet manifold?

Is it easy to dismount and clean, otherwise is it possible/suggested to utilize some suitable inlet manifold cleaning spray?

Last question, hope so, does the ECU manage the EGR valve or, in this engine, it's only managed from the pressure pipe above?

Thanks

Marco

please up

further to above I inform that I went to the dealer, intend to put special "red paste" to perform a better tightness in that manifold, it's confirmed that oil drop are from there


since the job seems easy the guy at the dealer confirmed I bought that "red past" and I'm planning a DIY job.

please what do you think, in particular I'm referring also to my previous post.

thanks so much