How not to take a bend

[Deleted member 126251]

Yeah, right

There's a better version of the video published on the South Yorkshire Police web site here.

The biker would have had first visibility of the car rounding the bend at around the 18-second mark - still on it's own side of the road. At that point, had I been the rider I doubt I would have anticipated the car veering into my lane. The impact occurs at the 20-second mark, so somewhere between one and two seconds between first visibility (when it would not have been clear that the car would veer out of its own lane) and carnage. If the biker had been a pedestrian stood still in the road, I doubt he would have got out of the way.

If you could have done better, you missed out on a career somewhere.

I didn't say the biker was at fault. I questioned what speed he might have been doing and a pound to a pinch of $h1t, he was speeding.

Why is this getting personal for you?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

While it's normal practice to position yourself over to the left on approach to a right-hander, I find that over the last few years our roads have deteriorated to the extent that you can't rely on the surface near the edge of the road being good any more, and instead it's likely to be broken up / populated with potholes / covered in lots of "spoil" debris" from the broken road surface, so I tend to keep further into the lane than I would have in the past.

"Never sacrifice grip for visibility", as the saying goes.

I wouldn’t say “normal practice”, more like “very rare practice”. But a reasonable criticism of the dangers lurking on the left. Of course there’s always the early taught but all too often ignored saying “Don’t ride/drive so fast that you can’t brake to a stop on the piece of road you can see”!

 

[st13phil]

I didn't say the biker was at fault. I questioned what speed he might have been doing and a pound to a pinch of $h1t, he was speeding.

There you go again. Stereotyping. "He's riding a motorcycle, ergo he's speeding"

 

[Deleted member 6183]

There you go again. Stereotyping. "He's riding a motorcycle, ergo he's speeding"

I’d bet on them both speeding, it looks like one of those roads that attracts enthusiastic motorists.

 

[E55BOF]

Of course there’s always the early taught but all too often ignored saying “Don’t ride/drive so fast that you can’t brake to a stop on the piece of road you can see”!

Which nearly everybody honours more in the breach than in the observance. If we all did that all the time, we'd be safer, but journeys would take much longer, because we'd all be driving lilac Nissan Micras, at 30 mph at most, almost everywhere. It's all a question of assessment of risk, and how much risk individual drivers are comfortable with.

 

[del320]

I didn't say the biker was at fault. I questioned what speed he might have been doing and a pound to a pinch of $h1t, he was speeding.

He wasn't! I reckon his speed was under 50 mph. How?

Look at st13phil's posted link. You can slow the video down to 25% then watch it frame by frame. In the time the cyclist saw Pratt and stood his bike on the front wheel he had covered 36 meters with a further 20 meters before collision. I don't know how far a cyclist can travel on just the front wheel but it looks to be less than 10 meters, suggesting his speed at point of impact was very low indeed.

In the same time, Pratt's speed had apparently dropped to 57 mph and the cyclist was in view nearly 100 meters away. Pratt was still doing 40 mph and had covered over 50 meters at the point of collision.

Clearly, the cyclist's reaction times were far superior to Pratt's and the poor devil was certainly not expecting the Subaru to go - and stay - on his side of the road.

 

[T5R+]

You can see on the different versions of the video doing the rounds how quickly the rider was full on the front brake (I assume he simultaneously applied rear) - evidenced by rear lifting. Why on earth would the rider anticipate on a clear, dry day with good road conditions another roaduser to "appear" in his lane.

Some of the posters on here should head over to the "biker forums" and allude to how the biker could have avoided/help-avoid that accident.

 

[st13phil]

He wasn't! I reckon his speed was under 50 mph. How?

Now, now. Don't let facts and logic get in the way of blind prejudice

 

[markjay]

You can see on the different versions of the video doing the rounds how quickly the rider was full on the front brake (I assume he simultaneously applied rear) - evidenced by rear lifting. Why on earth would the rider anticipate on a clear, dry day with good road conditions another roaduser to "appear" in his lane.

Some of the posters on here should head over to the "biker forums" and allude to how the biker could have avoided/help-avoid that accident.

Bikers are equally at the merci of any car on the road that ignores them.

The difference between riding a bike and driving a car is that bikers must always assume they are invisible... drivers just don't see them. Right or wrong, this is just how it is.

 

[Benzmanc]

The car driver in that clip was/is an idiot but bikers also do themselves no favours. I wonder how fast that biker was travelling.

Many of them ride with high beam on all the time and it seems like some are even aimed to dazzle oncoming motorists.

I've had bikers coming toward me (left hand bend for me) on or over the center line (usually solid) with his/her bike and body leaning into my lane leaving me very little space on our local country roads. I can imagine someone seeing the rapidly oncoming bike leaning into their lane, feeling squeezed, taking their foot off the accelerator (with the intention of slowing down), lift-off understeer, bike and car meet.

You clearly are anti -biker, oh well another one for the ignore list -don't bother replying as i won't see it

 

[Deleted member 65149]

You clearly are anti -biker, oh well another one for the ignore list -don't bother replying as i won't see it

How was Rory’s post anti-biker? He just commented that there are many bikers who could do better. It’s no different to accusing all of us here as being “anti-motorist” because we have criticised this particular car driver.

 

[KennyN]

He wasn't! I reckon his speed was under 50 mph. How ?

Got to agree with this , one thing I don't think has been mentioned regarding the bikers speed is that he was also approaching the corner and would have been slowing down accordingly and inline with the condition of the road surface , the fact it was a blind bend and quite narrow lanes.

Either way it was a sore ,life changing , event for the chap on two wheels.

K

 

[Bellow]

Looking at the YP vid - it starts to look like Pratt didn't lose it in the corner but failed to see the corner in time due to some in car distraction. In the first posted vid, at some point his air freshener swings to the left - and that wasn't due to cornering hard left.

 

[219]

If the biker was going faster or slower, they would not have met at that particular moment......etc

He could've been going slower , but been there that bit earlier = same result . Just an unfortunate co-incedence of circumstances .

 

[219]

I wouldn’t say “normal practice”, more like “very rare practice”. But a reasonable criticism of the dangers lurking on the left. Of course there’s always the early taught but all too often ignored saying “Don’t ride/drive so fast that you can’t brake to a stop on the piece of road you can see”!

"12 to 18 inches from the better part of the nearside" is what we were always taught at Tulliallan .

 

[219]

There you go again. Stereotyping. "He's riding a motorcycle, ergo he's speeding"

I'd have to respond that when I had my ( 125cc ) bike , I rarely sped .

 

[219]

He wasn't! I reckon his speed was under 50 mph. How?

Look at st13phil's posted link. You can slow the video down to 25% then watch it frame by frame. In the time the cyclist saw Pratt and stood his bike on the front wheel he had covered 36 meters with a further 20 meters before collision. I don't know how far a cyclist can travel on just the front wheel but it looks to be less than 10 meters, suggesting his speed at point of impact was very low indeed.

In the same time, Pratt's speed had apparently dropped to 57 mph and the cyclist was in view nearly 100 meters away. Pratt was still doing 40 mph and had covered over 50 meters at the point of collision.

Clearly, the cyclist's reaction times were far superior to Pratt's and the poor devil was certainly not expecting the Subaru to go - and stay - on his side of the road.

Good observations !

This crash is not entirely unlike yours where you were confronted by that Hamilton Waste and Recycling lorry on your side of a road coming round a bend !

Glad you're still here to tell the tale .

 

[Petrol Pete]

You can see on the different versions of the video doing the rounds how quickly the rider was full on the front brake (I assume he simultaneously applied rear) - evidenced by rear lifting. Why on earth would the rider anticipate on a clear, dry day with good road conditions another roaduser to "appear" in his lane.

Some of the posters on here should head over to the "biker forums" and allude to how the biker could have avoided/help-avoid that accident.

I would be surprised if he even touched the rear brake, if he was 'making progress' he would probably been on the balls of his feet.

A skilled solo rider on a sports bike will use the rear brake to limit wheel-spin/wheelies when pressing on and possible only lightly around town to balance the bike against the throttle in tight traffic situations. Other than that it is pretty useless...unless its a new bike full of electronics that have removed those particular skill sets from new bikers... just as it has with cars.

Either way , it was a nasty crash.

 

[190]

The only option for that biker , if quick reactions were possible, would have been to dive into the field on the left rather than hit the car head on .
Not normally reccomended other option might have been to pass the car on the right , but not generally a good idea as that’s where the car driver would try to go if he recovered control .

I was thinking in similar terms but you can't both emergency brake at the limits of adhesion and turn on a bike, you have to make a choice and the instinct will be to brake even if there is no hope. I'm sure the bike will have been traveling at a fair lick too but he could just as well have been stopped or a cyclist or a walker both of whom would almost certainly have died. If the bike had been traveling slowly then it's possible he could have taken avoiding action but in no way does the bikers speed excuse the car driver.

Experienced bikers do all of the things mentioned about visibility, observation into the distance and trusting no one but tragically sometimes it's not enough. Every biker that watches that video will have to make a decision to continue riding or not. For myself at 65 it reinforces my dislike of that type of dangerous and popular fast road. It will be my new years resolution to avoid the Cat and Fiddle which is our local version.

 

[st13phil]

Looking at the YP vid - it starts to look like Pratt didn't lose it in the corner but failed to see the corner in time due to some in car distraction.

It's difficult to know what happened just from the vid. The road does look as though it drops away and goes slightly adverse camber from just before the apex, but it did seem that the following car was travelling at a similar speed yet managed to not only navigate the corner with ease on his own side of the road, but also managed to stop not far past Pratt's impact point.

All in all a personal catastrophe for the biker, which Pratt can reflect upon from the “comfort” of a prison cell.